Can an Ehrlicher Yid be a Foodie?

Definitely not.

Why not?

There is nothing wrong with enjoying good kosher food.

It is not a bigger Mitzvah to eat Kugel and Chulent than to eat at Izzy’s bbq. Its the same Mitzvah

Of course.

You answer your own question by mentioning “baalei mussar”
An erliche yid follows what shulchan aruch says.as long as he washes makes berachos and benches the foodie is erluch.
Does a person who doesn’t look with ayin tov at his fellow yidden erlich?
What about us spending time hocking about nonsense online relish? Baalei mussar might not be impressed but dont worry
You can still be erlich

Can an ehrlicher yid be a car enthusiast? or a sports fan?

an erlicher yid eats for one reason only, he eats so that he/she can have strength to serve Hashem, which comes to mean that if you have reached this level & have removed these physical pleasures of eating all these fancy desired foods etc…. then there is really no difference between eating for dinner bread & water versus steak & soda, you have only one reason your eating so you can continue to have coach to serve Hashem & do mitzvos.

if you go out to all these restaurant a lot (not just once a week) then you should not fool/corrupt yourself into thinking you are just going to eat to have strength but know the truth yourself that you are going to enjoy that specific restaurants pleasure food

Consider the machlokis tana’im on the matter of why a Nazir brings a korbon for being choteh al ha-nefish. Is it because he withheld permissible pleasure from himself and it is sufficient what the Torah forbade? Is it because he is bringing himself from a higher level of kedusha to a lower level by ending his term of prishus? Is it both?

Also, consider the Yerushalmi that a person will have to answer for what he had an opportunity to derive pleasure from and doesn’t.

Obviously, making pleasure seeking ones goal in life is contrary to Yidishkeit. Intent matters.But it cuts both ways. You can use the Yerushalmi to become a baal taiva and you can use prishus to become a baal gaiva.

Also, maintaining awareness of our purpose for being in this world and working on our midos are not matters that are lefnai meshuras hadin left to chassidim and baalai musser. They are incumbent on every single yid.

“However I wouldn’t call eating food just for the taste of it ehrliche behaviour. Can we agree on that?”

I dont know what that means.
See Non-political’s excellent examples

Additionally
When Hashem promised E”Y, it is reffered to as “Zavas chalav u’dvash” Obviously this can have a metaphorical meaning too. ein mikra Yotze midei peshuto. I doubt this was geared only towards the non-erliche yidden. Sure there is a level to not be excited by food. As is said regarding Moshe Rabbeinu who obviosuly didint long for E”Y because the food. HE longed for the mitzvos he can do there. Obviosuly some Coffee room posters are on that level, and obviously there is such an idea. but to say enjoying food and even eating not solely to serve Hashem is automatically not-Ehrlich is silly.
In this weeks PArsha we read of the Mahn, chazal tell us the Mahn tasted like anything. Was this too just geared towards non-erliche yidden?

My favorite comment is this one
“if you go out to all these restaurant a lot (not just once a week) then you should not fool/corrupt yourself into thinking you are just going to eat to have strength but know the truth yourself that you are going to enjoy that specific restaurants pleasure food”
As if going once a week to a restaurant (!!!) THAT is “so that he/she can have strength to serve Hashem,” only more than that is a problem
By that benchmark. I am a big baal madreiga and very erlich indeed

When people start defining themselves by their hobby, that’s a problem.
There’s a difference between one who has a hobby with food, works in it, likes it, than one who defines his life and being as a “foodie”.

@ Jakob

“an erlicher yid eats for one reason only, he eats so that he/she can have strength to serve Hashem.

There are many ways one can eat Lshem Shamayim that don’t involve fooling yourself.

1) Eat food that is healthy and avoid impulsively eating foods in quantities that compromise your health and be mikayem the Mitza of guarding your health.

2) Eat mindfully, actually appreciating the pleasure and nutrition that the food is bringing you. Express that appreciation to the One who provided the food by making the brachos with kavanah. You can also be mkayem the Mitzva of Ahavta L’Raecha Kmocha by intending that your bracha should increase the sheffa of bracha to all of Klal Yisroel (see Nefish HaChaim regarding meaning of the word baruch).

3) Take your wife out to lunch or dinner. Take your kids (one at a time) out for ice cream. Making time for those close to us and shared PLEASURABLE experiences should be common and are an important ingredient in Shalom Bayis and effective Chinuch.

4) Appriciating that for every food that Hashem assured there is a comparable food which is permissible. This is a Chazal.

5) Put aside the best foods lkavod Shabbos, Vkarata Lshabbos Oneg.

non political & Chabad

i give you both A++++ on your examples but don’t fool yourselves. ask yourself are you looking forward to the weekly family restaurant date & each week count the days down towards it or is it a pleasure & mitzva to make your family happy? if your counting the days down then sure its a big mitzva but your not going for 100 percent spiritual mitzva reason there just is some ruchnius in it but your still counting down the days for that geshmacka steak or ice cream etc… & should not food yourself into thinking you went to make your family happy etc….

EVERY PLEASURE theres a way to turn it from gashmius to ruchnius & become a mitzva even though you are still enjoying it. yes even a rich business meeting in a fancy restaurant (where both pleasures of the food & the business is for you) can be changed over to ruchnius (ex. perhaps i can get to know this reform jew & invite him for shabbos & do kiruv or if not jewish focus on your middos & making a kiddush hashem even if no success in meeting at the end)

“Food isn’t a hobby. Hashem created food for us to eat.”

Neither is writing, Hashem created writing for us to communicate ideas.
Can an erliche yid be a writer ?

you ask “What if someone told you that he/she “seeks new experiences” and is obsessed over…”
I dont really folow. If someone is “obsessed over.” somethign h needs a therapist not for the expperience but for the obsession.
Again, Im not saying there is no such thing as taking things too far. There is an idea of not being a naval bershus haTorah. But this doesnt mean that anybody who enjoys food even “as a hobby” isnt erlich

I believe that food is considered to be a taivah. If it’s not coming from a taivadik place, then it’s fine.
Writing is not a taivah.

Lo Sasuru Achray Levavchem Viachray Eineychem…

@jakob

“i give you both A++++ on your examples but don’t fool yourselves. ask yourself are you looking forward to the weekly family restaurant date & each week count the days down towards it or is it a pleasure & mitzva to make your family happy?”

You remind me of an important concept I have learned and the path I have taken to apply it.

Basically there are two levels in Avodas Hashem :

1)kol maasecha yiyu lshem shomayim
2) bchol derachecha doeihu

What’s the difference? By the former, you do everything with Hahem as your final intent. With the latter, everything you do is itself serving Hashem.

Practically, take food as an example.

The first step “lshem shomayim” is that every time you really want to eat yummy food, you make sure that is enjoyment will end up lshem shomayim.

For example, when I used to want to eat Ice cream or anything else I enjoyed, I would use it as a reward for doing something good – usually learning something extra. Good food I would remind myself that I need the energy to serve Hashem. I can’t help enjoying it for itself, but I can channel that enjoyment to be lshem shomayim.

That’s why it’s a mitzva to make delicious food for Shabbos, so that the body too will associate shabbos with pleasure and look forward to it, not only the neshama.

The higher step is bchol derachecha doeihu. That everything Gashmius we do is itself to serve Hashem, just like shabbos food is itself a mitzvah.

So after enough of the former, one can reach the level where the body is used to associating every Gashmius pleasure with Avodas Hashem, and therefore only wants it in that framework – like only wanting to have cake together with the people you’re hosting – to make them comfortable. Only wanting to go to a restaurant to enhance sholom bayis etc.

And if the purpose isn’t there, the food itself isn’t pleasurable anymore.

The body is an amazing tool. We need to work with it to refine it but it’s capable of amazing things and can even elevate our neshama to new heights once we’ve trained it in.

[being a Foodie]… is a secular hedonistic expression which contradicts the mitzva of Kedoshim T’hiyue.”

As the resident expert in all forms of ” secular hedonistic expression” (at least from Joe’s perspective) I can assure you that we have had “foodies” among gadoylei yisroel for generations. We can even go back to the avos and remind ourselves that a certain “son” sought to gain favor with his father by exploiting his yearning for good food.

Gadolhadorah- You’re not supposed to understand chumash at your age the way you understood it at three. A primitive understanding of the avos should not serve as your yardstick for life.

I think there are two factors to consider here. The chovos halevavos writes that there is no such thing as a rishus- everything is either a mitzvah or aveirah, depending on intent and whether it’s the yetzer harah trying to pull down the long road to actually doing overt issurim. That said, everyone’s personal avodah depends on their level of bechira and their madreiga in closeness to Hashem. If R’ Chaim Kanievsky started experimenting with briskets, we’d all understand he had gone senile. Where he’s holding, being a foodie cannot be considered erlich. It suggests and indulgence of the senses, purely for pleasure, unbecoming of the Gadol Hador. For someone who regularly engages in issurim chamurim, diverting their taivos to food could be considered a mitzvah, taming more serious activities and perhaps weaning off them. At their level, being a foodie could be wonderful.

Most of us are somewhere in the middle. (Wolf will undoubtedly chime in here that farbeit for him to be anywhere else than the bottom of the barrel, if I haven’t forgotten the CR entirely). Being in the middle means each of us needs to assess, honestly, whether we’re indulging purely for the sake of pleasure, or actually trying to appreciate Hashem’s creations. I personally have a very difficult time believing that a man who does things for the sake of Heaven would be caught dead ‘horeving’ over a slab of meat; maybe by a woman it’s different. If someone is genuinely trying to get closer to Hashem, being a foodie (focusing a great deal of energy and time on preparing and eating the most delicious food you can find) doesn not seem like a productive lifestyle, from a spiritual perspective, and probably can’t be considered erlich.

It seems there there are two questions here: is being a foodie being a naval birshus haTorah, and does being a naval birshus haTorah make one not ehrlich.

Thanks gaon. That was well presented.

Gadolhadorah- Please rephrase your previous post in proper english. I don’t understand it.

“Your Gashmiyus Is My Ruchniyus” whether on food or any other indulgence that doesn’t involve shteiging 24×7”

Gadol,

You can not pasken from Chumash, we have the Talmud and a Shulchan Aruch. As I have posted earlier, we find many Halachos indicating that one should make all efforts not to “appear” as a “Foodie”, let alone officially calling yourself one. See Shulchan Aruch OC siman 170 .

Sorry to Wright this way but you are really stupid man/women there’s a Gamura that says that a woman gets her joy from new nice cloths and a man from wine & meat so obviously there is such a thing al pi Torah that a man can njoy his food and not only can he njoy but the gamura says ein Simcha eilu babusar and if a man is happy it helps to be a better jew

“Foodie” seems a bad translation of “garg’ron.”

Just a reminder, the OP’s question was not about appreciating and deriving pleasure from Hashem’s world and enjoying the food that we eat, the question was about making such enjoyment a priority to the extent that it defines the person and his purpose in life.

Wtp
” the question was about making such enjoyment a priority to the extent that it defines the person and his purpose in life”

No it wasn’t. True that’s how some reinterpreted the question. As most realize the way the questuin was asked was a bit silly. But that is not what was asked.
Here it is again: “Food is not eaten for sustenance or wellbeing, it is just for the pursuit of pleasure alone.
Can an Ehrlicher Yid be a Foodie?”

Scroll up for the full question

Ubiq
“Here it is again: “Food is not eaten for sustenance or wellbeing, it is just for the pursuit of pleasure alone.”

The OP just quoted a Wiki definition , but basically the issue was if one can declare himself a Ba’al Tavah. No one here eats ONLY for sustenance or wellbeing, we are not at that level yet…so obviously a Foodie is not that.