October 8, 2019 8:45 am at 8:45 am #1791856
After today’s decision to throw our Kurdish allies under the (Turkish) bus and doing nothing when Iran and its surrogates recently attacked the Saudi oil fields and a British tanker, can EY really assume that the U.S. will respond with military force if it is attacked? Yes, Trump has all the right words and symbolic actions, would the U.S. send troops and aircraft to help defend EY? Hopefully, EY has today and By’h will continue to have overwhelming military superiority to defend itself but I question the assumption among some Israelis that U.S. support is a given over the longer term.October 8, 2019 9:49 am at 9:49 am #1791950ubiquitinParticipant
can EY really assume that the U.S. will respond with military force if it is attacked?
Of course not. Who has ever assumed that?October 8, 2019 9:49 am at 9:49 am #1791954
Do not confuse Eretz Yisroel with the Zionist State of Israel.
Eretz Yisroel does not need any goy country. OTOH, the State of Israel is a vassal state of the United States and couldn’t survive without it.October 8, 2019 9:49 am at 9:49 am #1791960GoldilocksParticipant
The obvious answer to your question is NO.
Honestly? They would be better off relying on the tooth fairy.
Was that even a serious question?October 8, 2019 9:51 am at 9:51 am #1791961WhatsaktomeParticipant
The U.S. never sent they’re army to fight in Israel, they gave them, and under trump will continue to give them supplies, trump pulled out troops from Syria, but israel is not in that situation,October 8, 2019 1:49 pm at 1:49 pm #1791971MilhouseParticipant
FIrst, as others have said, the US has never promised to fight for Israel, and nobody has ever expected it to. The most we can expect is that It will stand on the sidelines and resupply, as it did in the Yom Kippur War.
The sad truth, however, is that even if the USA had made such a promise, Israel would not be so foolish as to rely on it. The USA has a long and shameful history of abandoning its friends and allies whenever it gets tired or distracted or sees some other opportunity, or whenever some domestic political advantage can be squeezed from it, or whatever.
One of the most dishonorable episodes in US history was when South Vietnam successfully fought off a massive invasion and then turned to the USA to fulfill our solemn commitment to resupply its depleted arms and to provide air support, and the Democrats in Congress refused to fund it, KNOWING AND INTENDING that this would mean our allies would fall to the next attack and would be slaughtered and enslaved. This was unforgivable.October 8, 2019 1:49 pm at 1:49 pm #1791973akupermaParticipant
The Medinah can rest assured about the United States honoring commitments, Just consider how the US stood by Ukraine when Russia invaded and occupied several of its provinces. Remember how the US stood up for pro-democracy revolutions in Hungary and Czechoslovakia in the Soviet era. Remember how the US stood by South Vietnam when the Communists broke the peace agreement and launched a full scale invasion, sending massive numbers of Vietnamese fleeing the country. If the Zionists actually believe the USA would go to war to save their state, they are dumber than even the most fanatical hareidim could imagine.October 8, 2019 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #1791975
There is no doubt that trump isn’t the “warmonger” that those on the left want you to believe
That being said, this is a stupid decision
“Hopefully, EY has today and By’h will continue to have overwhelming military superiority to defend itself but I question the assumption among some Israelis that U.S. support is a given over the longer term.“
אין לנו להשאיר אלא על אבינו שבשמיםOctober 8, 2019 1:51 pm at 1:51 pm #1791979samthenylicParticipant
Ein lanu lehishoen elo al Avinu shebashomayim.
Case closed…. the sooner we realize that, the faster our Geulah.October 8, 2019 2:09 pm at 2:09 pm #1791980samthenylicParticipant
Ein lanu lehishoen elo al Avinu shebashomayim…. The sooner we realize this, the faster our Geulah.October 10, 2019 7:19 am at 7:19 am #1792139interjectionParticipant
” I question the assumption among some Israelis that U.S. support is a given over the longer term.”
I never knew that any Israelis assume that support will is a given. Israeli policy on security is that we cannot rely on anyone. Israel planned to bomb Iran when Obama was president and they would have done so, knowing that they would’ve alienated themselves from the USA, if not for Obama discovering the plan and revealing it to the media.October 10, 2019 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #1792203WhatsaktomeParticipant
Hashem will support israel, whether through america or other venues, as of now it seems like its going to happen through americaOctober 10, 2019 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #1792244
coffee addict, אין לנו להשען אלא על אבינו שבשמים, we are unable to rely on anyone but on our Father in heaven.October 10, 2019 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #1792252
אין לנו להשען אלא על אבינו שבשמים
We can only rely on HKB”H. We cannot rely on the Israelis, the Israeli government, the Israeli army or anyone else.
We need to daven to the RBS”O.
אין לנו להשען אלא על אבינו שבשמיםOctober 10, 2019 11:33 pm at 11:33 pm #1792161
There is a fairly wide range of opinion within Israeli intelligence and military ranks as to exactly how much “support” will be forthcoming under different strategic scenarios. The biggest concern is in the intelligence area where the U.S. has historically not always “shared” real-time intelligence even while providing military hardware. The concern here is Trump’s incredible self-focus and absence of rational analysis and how that would play out in a scenario where providing support might not be popular at the moment. Watching how quickly he distanced himself from his own words on the Kurds and always seems to “blame” someone else for adverse outcomes, having a brass plate on a building in Yerushalayim will be of little help. Some here may recall how close EY came to open conflict with U.S./U.K forces during the 1956 Suez campaign. While we are nowhere in that situation, even with Trump, his “love of Israel” should be taken like just about any other Trumpism….don’t take it to the bank.October 11, 2019 12:50 pm at 12:50 pm #1792586
אין לנו להשאיר – Joseph, coffee addict where do you find this expression?October 11, 2019 12:50 pm at 12:50 pm #1792573
Thanks, my phone autocorrected it and that’s why it came out like that
Looks like joe had the same problem tooOctober 17, 2019 10:09 am at 10:09 am #1793309
You can say on the president כל הפוסל במומו פוסל Whoever denigrades does it with his own faults. I am rubber you are glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks on you.October 17, 2019 12:13 pm at 12:13 pm #1793314
Then you can say it about the Democrat candidates tooOctober 17, 2019 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #1793346
When one sets a fire, he does not get credit when putting it out with a cease fire.October 18, 2019 8:03 am at 8:03 am #1793478
The President did a beautiful job on Syria where he got America out of the country (not that I necessarily agree it was a good idea to get the U.S. out, but that is what Mr. Trump promised the voters before the election and has now delivered what he was elected to do) AND he got a ceasefire between the Turks and their Kurdish enemies.
Bravo and job well done.October 18, 2019 11:46 am at 11:46 am #1793556
I think you hit the nail on its head
The whole reason trump is doing this (along with his North Korea policy among others) is because of his promise to bring the troops homeOctober 18, 2019 11:47 am at 11:47 am #1793547
Bravo and well done for effectively sanctioning the Turkish invasion and occupation of the territory of another sovereign nation. I’m sure he will be extending high fives to the Trumpkopf the next time Russian surrogates occupy more areas of the Ukraine, when China builds more outposts in the South China Sea and Cuba claims it requires a protective zone on the coast of South Florida. The President simply emboldened one of the biggest anti-Semites in the Middle East consistent with his embracing dictators like Putin, Bolsonaro in Brazil Duterte in the Philippines and Orban in Hungary (not even mentioning the ruling monarchs of Saudi Arabia etc.).October 18, 2019 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #1793577
Cry me a river for giving a hoot that Turkey is violating Syria’s Hafez Al Assad’s sovereignty.
Were you so worried when Bill Clinton violated Serbia’s sovereignty when he sent troops into Serbia’s Kosovo? That action by Clinton paved the way for Putin to do the same thing in the Crimea.
President Trump, may the RBS”O protect him, grant him health and long life and reign in power for many years as President, has been the Jews best friend in the Oval Office since George Washington.October 18, 2019 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #1793632
Reb Yosef: How come the kiddush club at your shtieblach starts so early?? You obviously have had several l’chaims too many. Yidden’s best friend since GW?? With friends like the Trumpkopf,……..
Anyway a gutten moed and gutten shabbos.October 28, 2019 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #1795217
Joseph, איזהו חכם הרואה את הנולד. you praise Trump who does not look ahead at the consequences of his actions by only caring for himself and not taking advice from others. Our allies are disgusted with the US that it cannot be trusted as Rechavom who did not listen to the advice of the elders, so his rule was diminished.October 28, 2019 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #1795306
Joseph: “Cry me a river for giving a hoot that Turkey is violating Syria’s Hafez Al Assad’s sovereignty…”
So should Trump simply invade Mexico and occupy a “safe zone” for 25 -50 miles along the border. It would make it easier to “build a wall” since he wouldn’t have to worry about such annoying requirements as exercise of eminent domain for private land acquisition and doing Environmental Impact Statements for construction on federal lands. An once its done, he can “make Mexico pay for it” as the price for returning their territory (just as we will “take the oil” in Syria).October 29, 2019 8:35 am at 8:35 am #1795431kj chusidParticipant
Ey=eretz yisroel which is a geographical region including parts of Lebanon, gaza,Egypt so pls stop referring tk the state of Israel as “eretz yisroel”October 29, 2019 10:05 am at 10:05 am #1795459
KJ ….you are entitled to your definition…most Jews use the terms interchangeably. The United States is a patchwork of land legitimately purchased from other sovereigns as well as very large areas illegally (and immorally) stolen from the indigenous tribes. Not sure anyone really cares. Reality is on the ground.October 29, 2019 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #1795507HaKatanParticipant
KJ is, of course correct.
Regarding your reference to the United States, the OP’s question would be like asking if the continent of North America can count on British support. But that doesn’t make any sense. Do you mean Canada? The US? Mexico? All of the above? Two of the above? Parts of all three countries?
So if you mean to ask if, say, the United States can count on British support, it would be silly to write that as regarding the continent of North America rather than the United States.
Similarly, but liHavdil, Eretz Yisrael is a geographic area, not a political entity.
The State of Israel happens to be located on a large portion of the landmass of Eretz Yisrael, just as the United States happens to be located on a large portion of, liHavdil, the landmass of North America. That is, as you wrote, the reality “on the ground”.
So the OP’s title should obviously, read, “Can the Sate of Israel rely on..”, and not “Can E”Y rely on…”October 29, 2019 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #1795569interjectionParticipant
I took a semester at Hebrew University in Jerusalem and one of my teachers explained the struggle the forefathers of the State had when were trying to come up with a name for the country. They realized that the name should resemble Eretz Yisrael because it is more or less in that region, but they couldn’t name it exactly that because it is not exactly the same borders. They felt that Medinat Yisrael was a good compromise.October 29, 2019 11:25 pm at 11:25 pm #1795651
The State of Israel not only doesn’t include all of Eretz Yisroel, of course, as parts of Eretz Yisroel is in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Egypt, but the State of Israel also includes part of chutz la’aretz, for example Eilat.
What this all amounts to is that the State of Israel, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the Lebanese Republic all have the same status and category. All three have some parts of Eretz Yisroel and all three have some parts of chutz la’aretz.
People can live in Eretz Yisroel in Lebanon or Jordan and other people can live in chutz la’aretz in the State of Israel.
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