Home › Forums › In The News › Can One Report a Driver to Police for Grabbing a Designated Handicap Parking?
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February 15, 2013 12:27 am at 12:27 am #608218WIYMember
Can One Report a Driver to Police for Grabbing a Designated Handicap Parking Spot?
They wanted to know if the tefilos of the driver who stole the parking pace were valid, and if they may report him to police so he receives a summons for parking in a spot designated for handicapped motorists.
February 15, 2013 12:38 am at 12:38 am #930108Veltz MeshugenerMemberAll of the people in this story should get a hobby so that they could stop distracting R’ Chaim Kanievsky from his.
February 15, 2013 12:51 am at 12:51 am #930109HaLeiViParticipantIf you report someone for this, is it Lashon Hara for me to announce that fact?
February 15, 2013 12:56 am at 12:56 am #930110SeilishMemberVM: This is a very relevant and worthwhile shaila to ask the posek hador.
It seems Rav Chaim is saying that l’chatchila you should not masser him but once someone already did it you cant berate him for having done so.
February 15, 2013 1:20 am at 1:20 am #930111SeilishMemberAnother zach worth pointing out is that usually their are waaaaay too many handicapped parking spots reserved. You can have a full parking lot with every spot taken except that most of the handicapped spots are empty. This happens quite frequently. In which case, someone parking there without a permit is not really taking away a spot from a handicapped driver.
And another point worth throwing out there is that a lot of people abuse their handicapped parking permits. They get it in some zaida’s name but then use it most of the time when zaida is not in the car with them. (Which is against the permit regulations.) It could very well even be that most of the permit uses are abusive.
Is popa’s shitta that parking in a handicapped slot is akin to parking in front of someone else’s driveway?
February 15, 2013 1:25 am at 1:25 am #930112Veltz MeshugenerMemberSeilish: I guess it depends how you define relevant and worthwhile.If you define it as something that almost never happens and is of little consequence when it does, then yes, I agree.
February 15, 2013 2:39 am at 2:39 am #930113yitzchokmParticipantIm usually not one to question a psck, but I wonder if the Ruv understands what a handicap parking spot really is, Their function, and purpose.
I would like to know how the question was posed. I don’t understand how the word “stealing” can applied
February 15, 2013 6:03 am at 6:03 am #930114Torah613TorahParticipantNobody ever reported Steve Jobs.
February 15, 2013 6:21 am at 6:21 am #930115WIYMemberyitchokm
If it doesn’t belong to you and you have no business being there and you are stopping a handicapped person from being able to use the spot. The spot belongs to handicapped persons. Basically its reserved parking and you have no business there.
Oh and of course Rav Chaim can only finish Shas every year beiyun and.be a baki in kol hatorah kulah but something as complex as a handicapped parking space is just beyond his capabilities to comprehend, and asking the relevant questions is also beyond his mental capacity. Are YOU STUPID?!
February 15, 2013 7:12 am at 7:12 am #930116yitzchokmParticipantWiy,
Thanks for that
February 15, 2013 9:09 am at 9:09 am #930117YW Moderator-42ModeratorI heard a story like once that this handicapped guy was about to pull into the only handicapped spot at a Rite Aid. A non-handicapped guy entered the parking lot from the wrong side and got the spot first. The guy said to the angry handicapped driver that he was in a rush and would be “just a minute”. So the handicapped driver blocked him in, called 311, and got out to do his shopping. The guy who stole the spot ended up being parked there for more than “just a minute” while the police came to ticket him. I don’t know if that was the right thing to do (or if either character in the story was Jewish) but it is a fun story to tell. ^_^
February 15, 2013 12:35 pm at 12:35 pm #930118Veltz MeshugenerMemberWIY: Handicapped parking in the US is likely not the same as it is in other places, and YitzchokM also implied that the motivations of the questioners were unclear and that the answer makes no sense if one understands how handicapped parking works. In that context, it makes perfect sense to question whether R’ Chaim understands the practicalities of American handicapped parking rules.
February 15, 2013 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #930119squeakParticipantWe should take care of handicap spot takers internally and not involve the police.
February 15, 2013 1:56 pm at 1:56 pm #930120wanderingchanaParticipantI see a precedent in that we don’t sit in someone else’s seat, whether l’havdil showing kavod to rabbis, parents or just honoring someone’s makom in shul.
Does a lack of planning on your part (in getting where you need to be in order to daven on time) permit you to violate dina d’malchusa dina?
I guess if you have $250 to burn if you get a ticket, that’s your choice, but that’s a lot of money that would be better put toward tsedakah.
Finally, how would you feel if you had a valid health issue, NEEDED to use a handicapped spot, but they were all taken by people who “just needed to run in for five minutes” and then got distracted and ended up shmoozing, keeping you from getting the medication you NEED for Shabbos?
IMHO it’s selfish to excuse this behavior because ‘there are too many spots’. Plan ahead.
February 15, 2013 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #930121☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantDoes a lack of planning on your part (in getting where you need to be in order to daven on time) permit you to violate dina d’malchusa dina?
Are you so certain that it’s a violaton of dina d’malchusa dina??
I guess if you have $250 to burn if you get a ticket, that’s your choice, but that’s a lot of money that would be better put toward tsedakah.
People waste $250 on much worse things than catching a minyan.
Finally, how would you feel if you had a valid health issue, NEEDED to use a handicapped spot, but they were all taken by people who “just needed to run in for five minutes” and then got distracted and ended up shmoozing, keeping you from getting the medication you NEED for Shabbos?
We can play the “how would you feel if…” game with just about anything. We could also play out worst case scenarios to exaggerate our point. I’ll give it a try:
How would you feel if you were in aveilus for your father, l”a, and hadn’t missed a kaddish all year. You gave yourself an extra ten minutes to arrive early, despite the fact that you were busy taking three elderly people to their doctor, and then to the pharmacy for their medication which they NEED for Shabbos, but got caught in traffic, and arrived with only two minutes to spare. There are seventeen handicapped spots available, but no regular spots.
So, how would you feel?
To be clear, I’m not in favor of taking handicapped spots, but I am in favor of reason.
February 15, 2013 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #930122wanderingchanaParticipantIf seventeen other people were thinking the same way, there wouldn’t be any handicap spots available either.
February 15, 2013 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #930123zahavasdadParticipantLanguages and cultures are not 100% translatable. Words can mean one thing in one language in one area and something else elsewhere.
Simple example is the word Chutzpah, its doesnt translate exactly into english
or The following question Is Soda Kosher (Soda mean differnet things in different languages and difficult locations) It can mean Selter
We do not know how the question was asked of Rav Kanivesky and what the words meant to him and Gedolim always speak indirectly which is harder to translate
We are reading an approximate translation of an indirect statement making exact understand impossible
February 15, 2013 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #930125truthsharerMemberIf it happened in Lakewood shouldn’t the question be asked to a rabbi in Lakewood?
February 15, 2013 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #930126apushatayidParticipant“Are you so certain that it’s a violaton of dina d’malchusa dina??”
I dont know about the law in Lakewood, but I suppose one can look it up. If this incident took place in NYC…..
(On street Parking) (4) Parking prohibited. When parking is prohibited by signs or rules, no person shall stop a vehicle, attended or unattended, except temporarily for the purpose of and while expeditiously receiving or discharging passengers or loading of unloading property to or from the curb.
(A) Such person is, or is transporting, a handicapped permittee and displays a state special vehicle identification permit issued by the Commissioner of Motor Vehicles or
(C) Such vehicle displays a special license plate or parking permit issued by any governmental entity subject to the laws of the United States, or a foreign country for the purpose of granting special parking privileges to people with disabilities.
(ii) Handicapped plates or permits issued by New York State or by any other state, district, territory or other governmental entity or foreign country shall be valid only in designated off-street parking areas. They are not valid in on-street parking areas.
(o) Permits. For purposes of this section, a “permit” is the authorization granted by the Department to qualified individuals for special parking privileges as set forth in this subdivision. At the discretion of the Department, a permit may be represented by a permit card inscribed with information that describes the specific parking privileges it authorizes or by an IVPS programmed to contain the same information. Where this rule states that a permit must be displayed in the vehicle, a permittee using a permit card must place it in the appropriate place in a vehicle; a permittee using an IVPS must activate the system before so displaying it, in order to authorize parking pursuant to the permit. The registration numbers of the electronic component, the electronic debit card, and all related windshield stickers comprising an IVPS must match in order for such system to be considered properly activated.
(1) Permits for people with disabilities. (i) Authorized parking areas. An operator of a vehicle bearing a valid New York City Special Parking Identification permit may park:
(A) in any “No Parking” zone, including those marked “except authorized vehicles,”
(B) in any “No Standing Except Authorized Vehicles” zone,
(C) at parking meters without using an authorized payment method, and
(D) in “No Standing Except Trucks Loading and Unloading” zones.
Such special parking permit shall be displayed so that it is visible through the windshield. An IVPS must be activated to authorize parking.
(ii) Prohibited parking areas. Such special parking identification permits do not authorize parking:
(A) in a bus stop,
(B) in a taxi-stand,
(C) within 15 feet of a fire hydrant,
(D) in a fire zone,
(E) in a driveway,
(F) in a crosswalk,
(G) in a no stopping zone,
(H) in a no standing zone, or
(I) double parking.
No links.
February 15, 2013 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #930127🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipantwanderingchana- the next person would see 16 spots
February 15, 2013 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #930128SeilishMemberDina dmalchusa *only* cover issues thay directly impact the government, such as paying taxes. Other laws are not covered by dina dmalchusa.
February 15, 2013 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #930129lesschumrasParticipantI guess when it comes to adom l’chavar, people have no problem looking for kulas. Not every disabled person looks it.
February 15, 2013 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #930130☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantWanderingchana,
If everyone decided to withdraw their savings, the FDIC wouldn’t be able to bail out the banks.
If everyone in Chicago would turn on their toasted ovens at the same time, the electric grid would blow.
Do you think that making a withdrawal or toast is immoral?
February 15, 2013 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #930131☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantApy, I wasn’t asking what the dina d’malchusa is.
Lesschumras, their plates look the same.
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