Can One Ride in a Self-Driving Car on Shabbos

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  • #1563471

    Shulem Lemmer
    Participant

    Self-Driving Cars are cars that are driven by computers. Assuming you set your destination before Shabbat (or can otherwise direct it without performing any Melacha), can one ride in such a car on Shabbos?

    #1563482

    NOYB
    Participant

    No. It will have to account for your weight, you will need to buckle which will enable airbags and disable seatbelt warning systems, and there are many other things involving melacha.

    #1563552

    Toi
    Participant

    Well, NOYB, if none of those things were to occur, say you could disable warnings and lights going on and off, and preset the car to overcompensate no matter what the occupant’s weight was,etc. shouldn’t it be fine? Aside from hashkafik discussions about kovod shabbos, etc.

    #1563557

    Redleg
    Participant

    You would still have to start the car, I.E. light the fire

    #1563576

    Yankelle
    Participant

    NOYB: If those are the only problems, then the companies can develop a “Sabbath Mode”, as has been done with many appliances. However, my understanding is that even entering and exiting a vehicle would present serious issues, which obviously cannot be overcome.

    #1563615

    Joseph
    Participant

    How doel people go home from the hospital if they’re discharged Friday night?

    #1563744

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    How doel people go home from the hospital if they’re discharged Friday night?

    you take a Taxi

    #1563755

    akuperma
    Participant

    Should not the answer to the question “can one ride a self-driving car on Shabbos” be the same as the answer to the question “can you ride in a car driven by a non-Jew on Shabbos”?

    #1563756

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The Chasam Sofer says that we can’t ride a steam boat because it eliminates the mitzva of shabbosan.

    #1564375

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    How do frum yidden ride on “self driving” (i.e.. computer pre-programmed) Shabbos elevators on shabbos? Why is there any difference if they travel vertically, rather than horizontally, assuming you set aside concerns over t’chum shabbos (which itself may be a fatal flaw of the whole question).

    #1564433

    ChadGadya
    Participant

    Gadolhadorah,

    An entirely electric car might conceivably be able to be programmed to work like a shabbat elevator, i.e. automatically without the occupant having any effect other than increasing the electricity consumption, which is muttar according to many poskim, but an internal combustion engine automatically adjusts to extra weight by increasing the rate and/or size of the internal explosions, and would therefore be assur due to “hav’arah”.

    Akupema,

    A non-jew driving is considered the person doing the melacha, and therefore getting him to do it is a rabbinical prohibition of amirah le’akum, with its attendant leniencies, but in an automatic machine anything the jew causes it to do is attributed to him (unless it is done via gramah, the parameters of which are subject to much debate).

    #1564445

    jdf007
    Participant

    Whats the difference between this, riding in a train, taxi, riding a horse, or even I’ve heard – riding a bike?

    #1564527

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I mentioned the Chasam Sofer before that riding in a car violates the mitzva of shabosan as riding in a steam boat.

    #1565178

    Dr. E
    Participant

    With a seatbelt, it is muttar since it’s as if you are “wearing the car”.

    #1565207

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Dr. E – Can you were on Shabbos an electric massager suit?

    #1565209

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Dr. E……wouldn’t there still be the issues of “carrying” a 3200 lb vehicle outside of an eruv, if the vehicle independently decided to take a shortcut that went down the wrong street…also, how far are you allowed to travel in such a car on shabbos

    #1565219

    jakob
    Participant

    Jdfoo

    A bike is not electric so as long as it’s inside the eruv it’s fine. It’s just not shabbosdik

    #1565220

    Curiosity
    Participant

    There’s a prohibition in deriving benefit from any melacha that’s initiated on shabbos, even by a non-Jew, if that melacha is done specifically for the Jew. Even if you didn’t ask for it to be done, if you’re deriving benefit from it, it’s assur. You also run into issues of turning on lights when you open the doors and having to give destination instructions to the computer. Let’s assume the melacha is not done just for you, but that you are tagging along for a ride with a non-Jew who opens all the doors and directs the car to it’s final destination. You still have the problem with your weight increasing the load on the motor, and thus making it work harder for you. If it’s an internal combustion engine that means higher RPMs needed to achieve the same acceleration as if you weren’t there. For a 4-cylinder engine that could be thousands of additional melachas per minute due to your weight. If it’s 100% electric, it’s a machlokes, but still not muttar. You also move the car when you get in and out of it, so it would be a violation of muktzah. It’s also definitely not in the spirit of shabbos.

    #1565246

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    No, jakob, it’s not fine. The poskim say it’s assur.

    #1565291

    RichardM
    Participant

    If it means you can get to just one more Kiddush given by a guy you passed once in the corridor of your yeshiva but who would, nevertheless, be delighted to see you, then, yes, for sure; and it’s a mitzvah afilu.

    #1565313

    jdb
    Participant

    The variables here are quite broad. I was recently present when a major posek in this field spoke about this topic. At present, there are ways that this could technically be accomplished in a manner similar to shabbos elevators, however, there are other, more social issues that must be defined. Traveling in a car poses not only questions of techum, but also the spirit of shabbos. Tachlis, not likely to be considered muttar for the hamon am.

    #1565370

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    There are Poskim (I belive Sephardic ones, I think the ben Ish chai specifically ) who say riding a bike in an Eruv is ok. its not so pshut that its not allowed

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