Can One Ride in a Self-Driving Car on Shabbos
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- This topic has 21 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 10 months ago by zahavasdad.
July 23, 2018 9:46 pm at 9:46 pm #1563471Shulem LemmerParticipant
Self-Driving Cars are cars that are driven by computers. Assuming you set your destination before Shabbat (or can otherwise direct it without performing any Melacha), can one ride in such a car on Shabbos?July 24, 2018 12:27 am at 12:27 am #1563482NOYBParticipant
No. It will have to account for your weight, you will need to buckle which will enable airbags and disable seatbelt warning systems, and there are many other things involving melacha.July 24, 2018 9:32 am at 9:32 am #1563552ToiParticipant
Well, NOYB, if none of those things were to occur, say you could disable warnings and lights going on and off, and preset the car to overcompensate no matter what the occupant’s weight was,etc. shouldn’t it be fine? Aside from hashkafik discussions about kovod shabbos, etc.July 24, 2018 9:32 am at 9:32 am #1563557RedlegParticipant
You would still have to start the car, I.E. light the fireJuly 24, 2018 9:34 am at 9:34 am #1563576YankelleParticipant
NOYB: If those are the only problems, then the companies can develop a “Sabbath Mode”, as has been done with many appliances. However, my understanding is that even entering and exiting a vehicle would present serious issues, which obviously cannot be overcome.July 24, 2018 10:35 am at 10:35 am #1563615JosephParticipant
How doel people go home from the hospital if they’re discharged Friday night?July 24, 2018 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm #1563744zahavasdadParticipant
How doel people go home from the hospital if they’re discharged Friday night?
you take a TaxiJuly 24, 2018 12:21 pm at 12:21 pm #1563755akupermaParticipant
Should not the answer to the question “can one ride a self-driving car on Shabbos” be the same as the answer to the question “can you ride in a car driven by a non-Jew on Shabbos”?July 24, 2018 12:21 pm at 12:21 pm #1563756
The Chasam Sofer says that we can’t ride a steam boat because it eliminates the mitzva of shabbosan.July 25, 2018 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #1564375GadolhadorahParticipant
How do frum yidden ride on “self driving” (i.e.. computer pre-programmed) Shabbos elevators on shabbos? Why is there any difference if they travel vertically, rather than horizontally, assuming you set aside concerns over t’chum shabbos (which itself may be a fatal flaw of the whole question).July 25, 2018 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #1564433ChadGadyaParticipant
An entirely electric car might conceivably be able to be programmed to work like a shabbat elevator, i.e. automatically without the occupant having any effect other than increasing the electricity consumption, which is muttar according to many poskim, but an internal combustion engine automatically adjusts to extra weight by increasing the rate and/or size of the internal explosions, and would therefore be assur due to “hav’arah”.
A non-jew driving is considered the person doing the melacha, and therefore getting him to do it is a rabbinical prohibition of amirah le’akum, with its attendant leniencies, but in an automatic machine anything the jew causes it to do is attributed to him (unless it is done via gramah, the parameters of which are subject to much debate).July 25, 2018 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #1564445jdf007Participant
Whats the difference between this, riding in a train, taxi, riding a horse, or even I’ve heard – riding a bike?July 25, 2018 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1564527
I mentioned the Chasam Sofer before that riding in a car violates the mitzva of shabosan as riding in a steam boat.July 25, 2018 10:02 pm at 10:02 pm #1565178Dr. EParticipant
With a seatbelt, it is muttar since it’s as if you are “wearing the car”.July 25, 2018 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #1565207
Dr. E – Can you were on Shabbos an electric massager suit?July 25, 2018 11:19 pm at 11:19 pm #1565209GadolhadorahParticipant
Dr. E……wouldn’t there still be the issues of “carrying” a 3200 lb vehicle outside of an eruv, if the vehicle independently decided to take a shortcut that went down the wrong street…also, how far are you allowed to travel in such a car on shabbosJuly 26, 2018 1:03 am at 1:03 am #1565219jakobParticipant
A bike is not electric so as long as it’s inside the eruv it’s fine. It’s just not shabbosdikJuly 26, 2018 1:06 am at 1:06 am #1565220CuriosityParticipant
There’s a prohibition in deriving benefit from any melacha that’s initiated on shabbos, even by a non-Jew, if that melacha is done specifically for the Jew. Even if you didn’t ask for it to be done, if you’re deriving benefit from it, it’s assur. You also run into issues of turning on lights when you open the doors and having to give destination instructions to the computer. Let’s assume the melacha is not done just for you, but that you are tagging along for a ride with a non-Jew who opens all the doors and directs the car to it’s final destination. You still have the problem with your weight increasing the load on the motor, and thus making it work harder for you. If it’s an internal combustion engine that means higher RPMs needed to achieve the same acceleration as if you weren’t there. For a 4-cylinder engine that could be thousands of additional melachas per minute due to your weight. If it’s 100% electric, it’s a machlokes, but still not muttar. You also move the car when you get in and out of it, so it would be a violation of muktzah. It’s also definitely not in the spirit of shabbos.July 26, 2018 1:06 am at 1:06 am #1565246☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
No, jakob, it’s not fine. The poskim say it’s assur.July 26, 2018 6:23 am at 6:23 am #1565291RichardMParticipant
If it means you can get to just one more Kiddush given by a guy you passed once in the corridor of your yeshiva but who would, nevertheless, be delighted to see you, then, yes, for sure; and it’s a mitzvah afilu.July 26, 2018 9:16 am at 9:16 am #1565313jdbParticipant
The variables here are quite broad. I was recently present when a major posek in this field spoke about this topic. At present, there are ways that this could technically be accomplished in a manner similar to shabbos elevators, however, there are other, more social issues that must be defined. Traveling in a car poses not only questions of techum, but also the spirit of shabbos. Tachlis, not likely to be considered muttar for the hamon am.July 26, 2018 10:54 am at 10:54 am #1565370zahavasdadParticipant
There are Poskim (I belive Sephardic ones, I think the ben Ish chai specifically ) who say riding a bike in an Eruv is ok. its not so pshut that its not allowed
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