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We’ve been in Galus for nearly 2k years. We’ve suffered every kind of human suffering known to man throughout this journey. The majority of us have either been killed or forgotten who we are. A small remnant is still holding on, waiting for the day of return. Most of us believe there needs to be some maximal cutoff date when we’re redeemed, we cannot continue like this indefinitely, another 2k years. That cutoff date to this suffering is the year 6000, that’s when the days of Olom Habah begin, as the 7000th year begins The time Shabbos for the world.
Then I heard a recent shiur by Rabbi Zev Leff on this topic, where he states that Rambam in Moreh Nevuchim writes that the halacha doesn’t follow the opinion that the year 6000 is the absolute end date to galus. We have no end date.
My question is, how widespread is the belief in the year 6000 as the end in the Rishonim & Achronim?
What would Judaism look like in a post 6K world with no future date to look forward to, according to Rambam if Moshiach hasn’t come?
Why has the year 6000 been mentioned so much if Rambam doesn’t recognize it?Are you kidding? The Jewish people can’t wait beyond 5786.
Forget about 6000.
To Haimy
A Rabbi whose opinions I trust also said that 6000 isn’t a sure thing. I don’t see why it’s such a big deal. We have a Torah to keep. That’s our responsibility. It’s Hashem’s decision as to when Moshiach will come.
We’ve been around since most Europeans were hunter gatherers. When the goyim talk about ancient civilizations, we recognize our old “friends”, whom we have outlasted by millenia. We work for someone who is immortal, and have at least two worlds (“universes” might be a better translation). So stop worry and be patient.
You cannot redeem people that refuse to see sense for what it is. When we are willing to wakeup and face reality and get out of our ideological broken system and breathe the air of true freedom we will forever be in “galus” it’s 2000 years of manufactured galus. And its a cycle that simply keeps repeating itself. This comment sections and the incessant character assisnations I keep having to deal with because I was talking about concepts like “conformity” or “morality” is just a small window into the reasons why we are where we are. If we cannot look inward at our own wrongdoing and change our ways. There’s no redemption for us. Sorry not sorry
The Raavad in H. Tshuva P.8 , 8, seems to understand the R’M like that also: זה שקראו אותו חכמים העולם הבא לא מפני שאינו מצוי עתה וזה העולם אובד ואחר יבוא אותו העולם אין הדבר כן אלא הוי הוא מצוי ועומד – א״א: נראה כמכחיש שאין העולם חוזר לתוהו ובוהו והקב״ה מחדש עולמו, ואמרו: שיתא אלפי הוי עלמא וחד חרוב (ראש השנה לא, א) – ונמצא שהעולם חדש.
Raavad seems to understand the R’M like that too;
H. Tshuva 8,8זה שקראו אותו חכמים העולם הבא לא מפני שאינו מצוי עתה וזה העולם אובד ואחר יבוא אותו העולם אין הדבר כן אלא הוי הוא מצוי ועומד – א״א: נראה כמכחיש שאין העולם חוזר לתוהו ובוהו והקב״ה מחדש עולמו, ואמרו: שיתא אלפי הוי עלמא וחד חרוב (ראש השנה לא, א) – ונמצא שהעולם חדש.
To shlomo__frid
A synopsis in English please.
To rescue
Chazal say that the Jews will be redeemed if they’re totally meritorious or if they hit rock bottom so that puts a monkey wrench into your theory. Now on a personal note. You attacked me for no reason on two other threads. I asked you nicely to explain your position and you ignored my requests. You are a phony and a hypocrite. You can dish it out, but you refuse to discuss the issues like a human being. Checkmate dude. No one’s interested in your psychobabble. To borrow from the Bard, “Get thee to a Yeshiva and learn real values.”
to querty613: i apologize if you felt attacked; Actually , what i wrote was to support your idea that quote: ‘6000 isn’t a sure thing.’ and what the raavad writes is that the R’M seems to ignore the chazal saying about the 6000 years!
Hope this clarifies this;
regarding answering you on other posts: sorry but i don’t always get to this thingsto quert613:
what i wrote is NOT psychobable: it’s quoted straight from the Rambam and from The Raavad
here is the link for you to check
https://www.hebrewbooks.org/rambam.aspx?sefer=1&hilchos=5&perek=8&halocha=8&hilite=
if you need further clarification, lmkQuerty:
Dogmatic people often rely on authority rather than personal reasoning or evidence to justify their beliefs. Instead of presenting their own arguments or engaging in open debate, they assert that their position is correct simply because an authoritative source—such as a religious text, a famous figure, or an institution—supports it. This approach reflects a core aspect of dogmatism: accepting a belief on the basis of authority without questioning or testing it.
Sounds like chazal was trying to guilt trip you into thinking your responsible for your redemption and only if you “merit” it you will get it. Except that in the Torah it was written clear as day that an appointed hour Daniel will play out for all to see. So that put a monkey wrench in your theory. We are already in the messianic era. Your just not paying attention. And galus is generally chains that are “internal” because of dogma and control. But of course your going to throw stones at me cuz how can I say something that _you_ don’t believe. Omg
I usually like to post sources but now i am working from memory
There is a rabbenu bachya that I was once shown that said that instead of a shmittah (6000 year ) cycle we are on a yovel (50000 year ) cycle
depressing
But who knows what any of this means. Both opinions can be correct. One world can end at 6K and another starts while we all wait in olam haba and then maybe after 7 cycles that is when t’chiyas hamesim happens
I have never gotten worked up about these things
I have enough on my plate with the now instead of worrying about the futureTo querty
So your using authority to prove your point it doesn’t put a monkey rench in my theory. Sorry. Cuz I still speak the truth. Get over it“chazal say” “so your point is refuted”
Those are not facts
But just an appeal to authority to claim truth. Please stop the bs.
I speak of things unfolding today not 2000 years ago. And chazal is no longer here to witness it. What they said was thier oppinion not fact unless they were God. Which they are not.
Please the Torah says something very very different.
It says “at this appionted time certain things will unfold”
No conditions
No guilt trip
Just reality.
So chazal can say whatever they want but doesn’t make it true
Please stop being a sheep thanksTo shlomo_frid
Please reread my previous post. I made one comment for you and the other for rescue. You have no reason to apologize unless you and rescue are one and the same, which I highly doubt.
To mentsch 1
Your point is well taken. Many years ago, a friend told me that his Rabbi told him that Hashem could knock on your door and tell you exactly what he plans to do and it will still be a shock when it actually happens. We know that there is no shortage of statements from Chazal but no one knows how it will all work out. Only time will tell.
To Haimy
People are resilient. If 6000 comes and Moshiach hasn’t arrived our Rabbis will find some other Chazal to explain what happened. The Jewish people are eternal. We take a licking, but we keep on ticking.
Qwerty613
So many underhanded jabs. Must give you more points in heavenis there a Rav that the mods consult with? because if think some of the posts in this thread are straight out kfira.
high-control groups frequently employ thought-terminating clichés — vague, repetitive phrases that shut down critical thinking. When members raise legitimate concerns or ask difficult questions, responses often consist of dogmatic assertions like “kefira” or “we don’t think this way” rather than reasoned dialogue.
“kefira” is often used by high-control groups and certain religious institutions to silence criticism, suppress questioning of authority, and enforce doctrinal conformity. In such contexts, accusations of “kefira” serve not as genuine moral or theological judgments but as mechanisms of social and psychological control. By labeling dissenting views or critical questions as “kefira” leaders can delegitimize opposition without engaging with its substance.
This tactic aligns with broader patterns seen in authoritarian religious environments where challenging leadership or doctrine is equated with spiritual rebellion or moral corruption.
To yuda the maccabi
You make an interesting point, but it needs clarification because Kefirah is in the eyes of the beholder. Please provide a few examples of statements on YWN that you view as heretical and we can discuss them.
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