Can the “right” of modern Orthodoxy be saved while the “left” has left?

Many MOs have become Chareidim. Go to almost any Chareidi shul on Shabbos and you’ll find numerous members there who used to be MO or are from families that were MO.

The right of the MO and up in Lakewood, for obvious reasons.

The religious “left” (aka MO) and the political left are NOT the same. Jews who have nominally associated with the Dems and political left are increasingly moving center/right as the left is captured by an increasingly strident anti-Semitic tone (masquarading as anti-Israel and not anti-Semitic). This was noted in another recent thread where most of the Womens’ march leadership has resigned in protest to the continued inclusion of anti-Israeli/pro Palestinian groups whose agenda is clearly anti-Semitic. Sadly, we are squeezed with anti-Semitism on both the right and left fringes of the American political debate. The religious right itself, which for the past 2 or 3 years was almost 100 percent pro-Trump has shown a slight centrist tilt as some are questioning their unconditional support for the current Administration and looking beyond its clearly pro-Israel policies to other issues.

Avi K,

I once heard Rabbi Avi Weiss describe how he once stayed up all night talking to a young Jewish man who was about to marry a non-Jewish woman the next day. The young man decided to cancel the wedding. Rabbi Weiss said that the man eventually became frum and moved to a charedi neighborhood in Jerusalem. Rabbi Weiss was clearly pleased as he related that story.

Riverdale is about 20 miles from BP and 25 miles from Monsey but it might as well be on another planet from the perspective of those who have contempt for YCT/Rav Weiss and his hashkafah. To those that view MO, and especially the YCT leftist brand of MO as inconsistent with daas torah and yiddeshkeit, then there really is no common ground for discussion on the pros/cons of whether they offer an option for keeping some connected to yiddeshkeit because they don’t view it as “yiddeshkeit” and some would say no better than conservative/reform kefirah.

Joseph, who says that their witnesses aren’t kosher eidim? What about black-hat fraudsters?

I wonder if the OP can retitle his post as “Can the “right” of Ultra-Yeshivish be saved while the “left” has left? There are many examples where the oilam has gone beyond frumkeit and to the extend it borders on reshus.

I just saw a video of black hat members of this crowd pulling off a techal of a woman?!?!?! Never in my life I would have ever thought I would see supposedly Benai Torah doing something so vile?!?! Is it time we separate from these people and the rabbonim that support them? What should we called this new sect; FRUM:
F- Feel
R- Reshus
U- unvaynig
M-Mitzvos

Anon1m0us, would you please translate “unvaynig” for those of us who are not fluent in creole German,

AviK- U- unvaynig….very little

“Many MO youth are leaving Yiddishkeit in droves.”

May be true.

I had written about this previously in Is Yeshiva World Right thread.

There is a study of the Modern Orthodox community — which I cannot link to — but you can find easily. It is by Nishma. Page 9.

The survey concludes “Children on the left are becoming much less observant than their parents.”

The survey also notes that 1/3 MO are less observant, 1/3 are More and 1/3 of the same. I am not sure that would differ from any population. And — i am not sure what less observant means. For me, i have one child who i consider more observant. I have one who i consider less but his wife covers her hair and they are shomer kashrut/shabbat. Maybe i just should not “consider”?

I had written whether when MO kids leave MO — what happens to them. Do they intermarry? Do they just become non orthodox? Do they send to day school? But for the most part — i think (with no evidence) that they live middle class/upper class “normal” lives. I would think that in the Yeshivishe world that when kids leave they leave for drugs, alcohol or a “harder life”? Am I right? Is there any evidence?

“MrSarah, there is actually movement between different streams of Orthodoxy. There are even organizations in both the US and Israel that counsel people who were brought up in communities that are inappropriate for them but do not want to stop keeping mitzvot.”

I have seen this a bit. Makom, i believe is one. It makes sense to me.

The Nishma study was vague about the drop out rate from MO. In fairness, it did not really address it. I dont know if i would call it droves. I was thinking anecdotally in my shul — and i would say 1 in 15? I really dont know. I do know that it is not like every family has one kid who is no longer orthodox.

The numbers of drop outs based on Pew Study were much greater — especially in older demographics. I think thats because the definition of Orthodoxy was much broader 50 years ago.

I

Mr. Sarah, how is it possible to arrive at a figure. Even in Israel, where one can measure the number of seats won by religious parties there is no way of knowing how many simply tired of sectoral politics. Moreover, one cannot know how many secular Jews become observant and what percentages go to different groups – and whether they stay with a certain group or move on to another stream (this can happen when they initially become very machmir and then stabilize in the middle).