Can Yeshivish families make aliyah with school age children?
Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › Can Yeshivish families make aliyah with school age children?
Tagged: Aliyah, beit shemesh, boys yeshivas, chinuch
- This topic has 19 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 2 years ago by Shimon Nodel.
March 20, 2021 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #1959106richashuParticipant
Apparently, you can.March 21, 2021 3:06 am at 3:06 am #1959136Sam KleinParticipant
Absolutely they can
Nefesh B’nefesh has programs to help a family making Aliya to Israel for ALL ISSUES from education to home buying to government support etc…. To finding you a job although we know in truth that all financial support is actually coming directly from Hashem and not from the government or the rich father in law etc…..March 21, 2021 11:12 am at 11:12 am #1959256meir GParticipant
3 things to do first
1. speak to a bunch of similar style frum families that made aliya , and ask them ?
2. speak to at least 2 rabonim who know this specific line in the anglo / isreal neighborhoods
3. look in the mirror , whats motivating you to take such a drastic step ? & why NOW?March 21, 2021 11:12 am at 11:12 am #1959265jdbParticipant
Being yeshivish or chareidi is not much of a consideration. Modern orthodox have the same challenges. There are challenges anytime someone moves, making new friends, adapting to new cultural norms, language barriers, etc.
English-friendly American Yeshivish elementary schools abound. especially in yeshivish American neighborhoods like Ramat Bet Shemesh. There are many, many options in the Ramat Bet Shemesh Aleph and Gimmel neighborhoods for both boys and girls. The quality of educational options for a typical yeshivish family should not be a concern.March 21, 2021 1:18 pm at 1:18 pm #1959295[email protected]Participant
Run to Israel on the next flight. Hashem is waiting for you to come home to him. טובה הארץ מאד מאד ארץ אשר היא זבת חלב ודבשMarch 21, 2021 7:26 pm at 7:26 pm #1959408MadeAliyahParticipant
look in the mirror , whats motivating you to take such a drastic step ? & why NOW?
look in the mirror , what’s preventing you from taking such a heroic step ? & why not NOW?March 22, 2021 2:09 am at 2:09 am #1959457ZSKParticipant
Absolutely. Just plan carefully.March 22, 2021 2:11 am at 2:11 am #1959460YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
Welcome ZSK, thanks for dropping in!March 22, 2021 8:07 am at 8:07 am #1959473UniqueUsernameParticipant
With proper research and preparation it will the best thing for you and your family
ברוך הבאMarch 22, 2021 1:15 pm at 1:15 pm #1959568EvalimoshavloParticipant
Good Morning America!! Hashem is waiting, working overtime preparing everything so that His children will come home!! Jump in Nachshon!! Plan, Prepare, and Daven! This is the Holyland! Throw away your rule book! Here the rules are all different because this is Hashem’s land! Now’s the time!! Comeon Aliyah from love of Hashem and His Mitzvos. Don’t wait to be thrown out!!March 22, 2021 1:16 pm at 1:16 pm #1959569EvalimoshavloParticipant
Do you want to wait until their married and settled there and then you’ll come here all alone?????March 23, 2021 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #1960134Yserbius123Participant
I don’t know what the situation is right now. I know, like the Rabbonim in this video explained, that 15-20 years ago it was extremely difficult for school aged children to make Aliyah. My question is this. One of the biggest issues that people faced is the two tzedadim of frum Israeli life. Either you live as a Chareidi and all that entails, or you live as a Da’ati Leumi and all that entails.
There was simply no room for someone like your typical kid from Torah Vodaas who wears a hat in shul, plays basketball during recess, learns most of the day, follows the Yankees, and will eventually learn in kollel for a few years before going to college and working as an accountant.
Has that changed and how?March 23, 2021 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #1960141RR44Participant
The Biala Rebbe of Yeurshalyim / Lugano is a strong proponene tof aliya and his chassidim includes people of a large variety of backgrounds and affiliations.
It might be worthwhile being in touch with the kehilla.March 23, 2021 10:26 pm at 10:26 pm #1960118Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
richashu, thanks for the link. I am glad that these are so open-minded chareidi schools: if you want, they let you wear a mask or a kippah or tzitzis, but they don’t force you to. tizku b’mitzvos.
As heilike Berdichever said after watching the video – how holy are your people, Aibishte, will they admit everything, but they will not lie!March 24, 2021 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm #1960368rationalParticipant
Yserbius, you make excellent points and described the situation quite accurately.
It has changed in the last 10-15 years, but minimally. There are pockets of the yeshivish type you described in Bet Shemesh , Har Nof, and maybe a few other places. The tight-rope balancing act is extremely difficult. Most of these children either end up going back to the States or move to the Israeli Chareidi model. Most of them don’t learn the language and are trapped socially. Even if they find their min-b’mino here , the next generation will be mainstream chareidi. Is Aliyah worth it in these cases? Of course, home is home. Orlando for Pesach is fun, but to the best of my recollection, G-d chose this land. Ma la’asot, zeh hamatzav.March 24, 2021 12:41 pm at 12:41 pm #1960379rationalParticipant
Yserbius, sorry, one small correction. Dat = religion. Dati L’eumi = religious nationalist. Da’ati= hada’at sheli = my opinion.March 24, 2021 12:41 pm at 12:41 pm #1960381ARRWParticipant
The “Aliyah under all circumstances” team is out in force here, but the reality is complicated. School age comprises a broad range. The older the child, the more problematic. In the worst case, the average American Mesivta boy who does not speak Hebrew and is used to learning until 2 o’clock and then night seder will find the Israeli Yeshvia Ketana system suffocating. There are a very few schools which offer an alternative more American way of learning with some secular topics. However, their numbers are small, they may not be where you want to live, and your son may not get in and there will still be lots of cultural problems for a boy that age. Many Israeli schools simply do not want Americans because it will taint the schools reputation. On the other hand children between the ages of 6 and 10 will after some initial difficulties generally do OK. Many high school age children simply refuse to make Aliyah with their parents. Is it worth breaking a family up to make Aliayah?
In short, there are a lot of factors such as the age of your children, how much they are on board with the plan and how much unhappiness you are willing to tolerate in your home for the sake of making Aliyah. These are not easy choices.March 24, 2021 1:21 pm at 1:21 pm #1960387Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
Each of the parts of the Jewish people have something to contribute … If Amerikaiim feel that they have approaches that have value, maybe they should continue them in Israel, with necessary adjustments instead of assimilating? Put a small group and start learning together, possibly part-time in English, and part time b’Ivrit to facilitate transition. Add zoom with your American community, if necessary.
One Rav who moved to Israel was immediately asked – which party are you for? He replied – “Moshe Rabbeinu”.March 24, 2021 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm #1960389richashuParticipant
While nothing in life is simple, things are often complicated by those that make it complicated. The difference between families that succeed and fail in aliyah has more to do with their attitude than their family/parnassah circumstances. People with a cynical attitude who are unable to be flexible will certainly have a hard time. People with difficult life circumstances and older children can succeed if the family has a positive attitude, and willingness to be flexible and roll with the punches.
There have been tremendous changes in the last 10-15 years. Bet Shemesh is a town that has more Jews than Monsey, and will be doubling its size in the next couple of years. Bet Shemesh has exactly the type of yeshivish that rational described. There are also many more affordable places that have an out of town vibe, but require more israeli integration.
Most children do learn the language and adapt. Average children below the 5th grade pick up the language in 3-6 months. The older children take longer, but eventually they pick it up. Most do NOT move back to the states. Since I moved to EY, perhaps less than 1% of the people I met expressed a sentiment that they would want to move back to the US. Amongst frum Americans, there is a very high satisfaction rate of those living here. That does not mean that it is a rose garden, but life satisfaction overall is very high.
There are several schools that offer limudei chol for high school, and they have dorms for families that live further away. Many people are happy with these schools. There are also a growing number of vocational training programs for chariedim, that do not require one to go to a high school with limudei chol. Specifically IT and computer related fields dont require formal high school education, pay very well, and have programs for chareidim.
While no one supports breaking up a family, you can go along way by creating a positive atmosphere in the home about aliyah. Shabbos stories about EY, music, pictures, food, and just talking about EY in a positive way can go a very long way in bringing other family members on board, gradually. It took me quite a while to get my wife on board, but now that weve lived here for a few years, she is happy here.
You are ultimately in control of your own happiness. You have the power to chose to be happy or not be happy. If you are a flexible person with a modest outlook, and you want to come to EY for the right reasons, there is no reason in the world why you cant succeed and be happy here, regardless of personal circumstances. Will everything be smooth and easy- absolutely not. But if you realize that EY is a tremendous gift, and you appreciate the gift, and you are willing to go with the punches, there is no greater joy than living here- even with all of the problems. Although American chareidim are still a small minority, they have built up enough yeshivos and mosdos for themselves and their children to be self sufficient. The more people that come, the more options that will open up.
Dont get discouraged by the 1% that moved back to the US and are bitter. Talk to the 99% of those that are living here and can tell you the facts from a positive perspective.
Good Luck!March 25, 2021 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #1960672Shimon NodelParticipant
It’s so obvious that the answer is no. Unless you have a rare perfect scenario that every one of your kids won’t be negatively affected, which is unlikely.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.