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I feel that many of us in Lakewood are lacking basic car knowledge, which can be extremely helpful on a frequent basis. Now it’s true many of us are tech-savvy and have either been self-taught, or got trained by someone close. But people like me, who just heard the term “anti-freeze” today, really need a rundown on the basics of understanding the maintenance of a car, how to change a tire (which I have done actually), how to plug a leak, charge up the batteries, maybe even oil change… you get the point.
Basically, all I’m saying, if you are knowledgeable in cars, and live in Lakewood, there may be a demand to get hands-on training on how to maintain a car (would be great for chaverim to get more volunteers as well).
Then again, it may just be me (who either is bad with cars or is interested in such a course)
Anyone agree, disagree?
My mechanic does all this already.
Your idea is a good one, since everyone who drives a car should have basic knowledge of what to do in an emergency, like mounting a spare tire, using jumper cables, etc. The owner’s manual for your car should explain these basic tasks you may need to do on the road. If you don’t have an owner’s manual it should be available online. AAA is also a good thing to have but you might have to wait an hour for them to come. Of course you should always have a fully charged cell phone.
Make the best use of your time and read the owner’s manual to know what preventive maintenance is expected, and leave the non-emergency repairs like oil changes to the professionals. If you are concerned that your lack of auto repair expertise makes you an easy mark for an unscrupulous mechanic, bring someone knowledgeable with you when going to the repair shop.
I disagree with Orangecountychapper. That mindeset of leaving “non-emergency repairs to the professionals” is what sends many people to have work done by the repair shop in the dealership which costs double or triple the price. I am not saying that everyone can do every repair but you would be surprised how much you can do on your car (and at home) by watching a few youtube videos. I think the rule is to know your own limitations and time constraints.
I was a mechanic for years, every one assumes I will help them for free.
It’s nice being asked to do HVAC, automotive, plumbing for free but yet the CPA, lawyers and doctors all demand a charge when asked for help/advice.
A bit of advice, remain ignorant on these things or at least pretend to because you’ll be expected to do a lot of free work for people that can afford to pay for it.
Loatspark, I can easily testify that doctors very frequently get asked for medical advice and assistance during off hours.
And they help. Without charge.
My lawyer friends tell me they, too, get asked for legal advice after davening. And they don’t bill the mispallel or neighbor or friend or family member.
Most new cars are designed in such a way that the most common repairs and trouble-shooting we used to be able to do ourselves are nearly impossible. Between the reliance on computer chips for diagnostics and difficulty of reaching certain parts under the hood or need for special tools, you are almost forced to go to a dealer or independent repair firm to handle what should be simple repairs.
GHD, don’t be such a fein-schmecker and simply buy an older car.
How about yeshivos organize an evening class on halachos of defensive driving, driving politely lemehadrin, and basics of car service. A mechanic should be able to do his part for free as an advertisement for his shop.
In addition to chips that require dealers, we need to appreciate cars becoming better – my mechanic lamented that there is no metal rusting in the car any more. Now if people would stop bumping into each other, he would be out of work.
CTRebbe, do you actually disagree with me? It sounds like you are speculating about my “mindset”. You didn’t see my advice regarding unscrupulous mechanics? And honest mechanics are entitled to their parnassah just as much as you and me.
I’d rather see someone spend epes $30-$80 to do an oil change than spend an hour or more on it at home, not to mention properly disposing of the oil. If someone wants to learn how to do these things correctly, with the proper tools and practices, of course they can. I’ve done a lot of these things myself, including batteries, belts, hoses, lights, sound systems, exhausts, valve covers, thermostats and gaskets.
And what Gadolhatorah said is also absolutely right. Even changing some bulbs used to be easy and now they can be a major balagan. Yeshivish people have better things to do. I’d rather spend my time on my family, Yiddishkeit and my day job.
LostPark
“the CPA, lawyers and doctors all demand a charge when asked for help/advice.”
that has not been my experience at all. I get called for advice all the time, it never occured to me to charge
“A bit of advice, remain ignorant on these things or at least pretend to because you’ll be expected to do a lot of free work for people that can afford to pay for it.”
Wait, your advice is not to learn things os that you won’t feel pressured to help others?
I grew up with a Father who worked on cars (so did my bros). I also learned how to lay brick, vinyl, formica, hang tape and texture drywall and do repairs on vehicles. I drive a 20 yo Volvo and have only needed a mechanic once. (Last week.) I’ve replaced alternators, door activators, AC fans and fuel pumps. YouTube is a great way to learn how to fix things, so are vehicle owner groups.
There are two disparate issues.
1, Basic knowledge of what does what and what might be a problem.
2, Having the actual skill, knowledge and correct tools to do the repair in a safe manner. Doing it wrong might be worse than being stuck.
For those that can understand. I recently had the dealer change a timing chain on a Honda built car. The mechanic could not loosen some nuts so did his best. The chain broke later on and thus destroyed my engine. The Dealer/warranty resolved it.There is youtube videos on how to do your own dental work, how to dig a grave and trench a pipe
“GHD, don’t be such a fein-schmecker and simply buy an older car…”
UJM: The “older” Maseratis cost a lot more than the newer ones, and for an ehrliche fein-schmecker such as myself, they lack that “new car schmeck”.
My advice is if you have tangible skills be prepared to be taken advantage of. For some odd reason highly educated people assume technical tradesman chose jobs that are more enjoyable, so it must be a real joy to work on their HVAC for free as a mitzvah in the dead of summer.
This is not an isolated case, every car problem, HVAC problem, electrical problem a you had I’m my community I’m receiving calls year round for help with no offers if pay. It’s shameful, if you do this to the handy person in your shul, make tshuvah this year because it is an awful thing to do to a person and you are obviously a Baal geivah to think you are above paying someone for skilled labor.
Lostspark: Do you say the same about people who informally ask for help from a doctor, lawyer or computer expert they daven with, live near or are friends or family with?
Yes. Unless it’s a case of life or death obviously.
Lostspark: Why don’t you simply tell them “no”? Or tell them you’ll need to charge them a fee.
I totally agree. If such a course would be offered I’m sure that it would be extremely popular. If such a course would be offered it can be extremely successful.
A course in self home improvement is needed first. Then a course in consumer electronics repair is needed. Only after that should a car repair course be done.
Another factor is that we are holding on to cars for longer periods these days. If any of you have gone shopping for a new or slightly used (recent model year) car, the prices have gone through the roof based on both supply and demand issues. Due to the chip shortage and other supply chain issues, manufacturers are unable to deliver a a sufficient number of”new” cars to their dealers, with waiting times of up to 6-9 months for popular models. As more people are unwilling to use buses and subways, demand for used cars has also spiked with prices up as much as 30-40 percent since COVID. Holding on to your old car means having to do some basic repairs yourself, if you know how (which in most cases, I don’t).
> very car problem, HVAC problem, electrical problem a you had I’m my community I’m receiving calls year round for help with no offers if pay.
You should be proud that you are able to do something in life that is helpful to other people. A lot of office people are never asked to help as their skill of sitting through meetings and nodding is not helping humanity.
Possible solutions: pay yourself from your tzedokah funds (or essentially, consider your advice tzedokah). This is a subset of a more general solution to life annoyances: create a fund to cover such expenses in advance and pay yourself from that fund, say, every time your kid breaks a cup instead of shouting at the kid.
Also, answering questions is a great way to advertise your service! These people will come to you later, or recommend you to their friends. Maybe make sure that people know that you provide paid services, by, say, putting an ad in a school yearbook so that people know how to find you.
GH > we are holding on to cars for longer periods these days.
this is a pre-covid trend. Vehicles now are mostly man-made materials and not metal, so they do not rust. Car companies suffer from their own success, and produce less cars – and charge more for them. Mechanics have less work to do and daven for early snow so that there will be at least some body work ..
Orange> $30-$80 to do an oil change than spend an hour or more on it at home… Yeshivish people have better things to do.
Do you earn more than $30 after tax? if yes, buy the service. If not, do it yourself. If you are not earning anything, and someone else pays for your learning, ask him if he is willing to pay for your oil change. He would probably ask you whether you are using the car to learn.
Always_Ask_Questions,
“If you are not earning anything, and someone else pays for your learning, ask him if he is willing to pay for your oil change.”
You seem to bring up full-time learners quite frequently, no matter the context of the thread. What’s with that? Did you go to a community kollel shiur once and they beat you up and stole your lunch money? Are you supporting a son-in-law in kollel and feeling resentful? Or is this more just feeling like a biting donkey?
Always_Ask_Questions > I do earn enough to pay for the service myself, but you raise a fair point. If someone else was paying for my learning, and the car was essential to my learning schedule, it would be reasonable to ask my sponsor for financial assistance for an emergency repair. But I should have had enough income in the first place to cover routine expenses like fuel and oil changes, and enough basic car knowledge to deal with overheated engines, battery jumps, etc. Also, it would be totally appropriate for my sponsor to question whether I could afford, or needed, a car at all. An unreliable car can be a major distraction.
AAQ has a good point about oil changes. Where I live the issue is disposal of used auto oil, that’s why I do have my oil changed by a local shop. It costs me $30.
Newer cars costs around $60 per oil change in NYC. And that’s for the standard oil.
AAQ. Yes, its a pre-Covid trend but Covid has really created a separate “shortage” issue, especially among those who would trade in their leased vehicles every 3-5 years because they wanted a new model car. Those new or late model cars simply aren’t readily available because of chip shortages and other supply change issues. . However, I doubt any of those “new” car buyers would know how to open their hoods, much less change their oil or air filter.
Avram > You seem to bring up full-time learners quite frequently, no matter the context of the thread. What’s with that?
In this case, I just covered multiple cases where solution might be different – people who earn more, people who earn less, and people who depend on others.
As one illustration that halakha is different where you are independent or not – I quoted R Salanter before that he lowered his kashrus standards when he was on a trip sponsored to improve his health. And there are other examples – vacations, jewelry, tuition, where things are different. Some schools my kids went to are asking (I think appropriately) what camps/vacations kids attend, presumably before deciding on tuition breaks.
Where you are right – that these issues come up often and seems like you are surprised how often. Possibly, people get used to a lifestyle and do not understand the halakhic and lifnei-meshuras =-hadin implications.
As you asked my opinion, I humbly concur with the Gemorah cautioning us that many tried the way of Rashbi and did not succeed.
ujm > Newer cars costs around $60 per oil change in NYC.
so, if you earn less than $60/hour, same applies. Furthermore, you do an oil change while on a trip off the island. I presume “newer” car means at least capable of crossing a bridge, not like some “older” NY cars.
What you mean is to MAINTAIN a car. Check and top off oil, antifreeze and, other fluids, fill tires with air and change a flat tire, a dead bulb these are not repairs they are basics and the manual in the car explains these things. Repairs like changing a belt or alternator, radiator do need special tools and a little knowledge, other things need diagnostics before repairs.
Chaimy, whitecar – yes, along with defensive driving and driving middos.
“Possibly, people get used to a lifestyle and do not understand the halakhic and lifnei-meshuras =-hadin implications.”
and many get used to looking down their noses at what the kollel folks are doing that they don’t even realize how erroneous they are in there speculations about their lives.
Did you really not know that that was not what Avrum said? He was talking, I am sure, about YOU bringing up your annoyance with the lifestyle, NOT how much the subject comes up.
Sorry but I need to cross threads for this but here are some more not well researched but condescending comments:
“Jews in US taking welfare funds, justifying that they are using them for good reasons…Even if you do not cheat directly, you are bound to be biased.”
“we ended up with youngelech dressing up daily as Talmidei Chachamim, and then believing in their own and their friends’ status based on the dress code”
“when they advocate for things that clearly need to be changed – … slavery, not studying professions…”
AAQ,
You say that if people are making less than $60 an hour, they should do their own oil changes. Especially if they are learning in kollel. Because an oil change costs $60.
For someone who “always ask questions” you did consider some very simple ones that show the fallacy of your comment.
1) How much does the oil cost, (Actually, about $23 for 5 quarts now)
2) How much does the oil filter costs (Cheapest is $4.50, better are about 8.50)
3) How much do the tools for doing an oil and filter change cost (considering that a person would typically need maybe 2-3 oil changes a year)(Wrench, funnels, oil filter wrench, oil drip pan)
4) Where I live, the oil change places include a car wash in the price, that is worth a few dollars
5) What about the hassle of disposing the used oil and filter
6) There is a cost to purchasing the other fluids that get topped off at an oil change
7)The amortized cost of clothing that you can wear when doing an oil change. You don’t expect a kollel person to do so in his white shirt and dress pants. And more casual clothing is not suited for that either. Perhaps the clothing you are used to wearing might be more suited.
By the time you add that up, the savings for doing an oil change by one’s self really is very small if at all and likely does not exist.Additionally, it often takes significantly more time to do an oil change at home (including the associated clean up) that going to a quick change place. This is time that many Yungeleit do not have. They are busy shopping, or with kids during bein hasedorim and evening hours as well. Neither do they have off on Sundays. And many people do not have a place they can just do an oil change. It is not wise to do so on a public street, and not all driveways are suited for that as well. And if oil spills during the change on the drive way, its a huge hassle.
I have a relative who is a regular yeshivish person. He did his own oil changes. But he was driving between 1,500 and 2,000 miles a week for his job. For him it was a savings. But most people, it costs more do a change your self, if you add up the actual costs. (And if you have an issue with car, you may have an issue proving oil changes done your self, but if you go to the same place you can get a history of oil changes, to protect your claims, but you go buy the extended warranties we all get calls about)
nisht, yes, thanks for making a more detailed heshbon than I did. You can modify it a little in favor of own work:
– you can obviously learn by heart while you are doing manual work, especially for yourself and not for the customer (it is a question whether you can distract yourself from work when paid for work). If you can say shma on the tree, you can say it in the garage. Especially in our time, when you can even play a lecture on your phone
– You can also involve those kids in age-appropriate activities helping you. This should lead to bonding and kids respecting the father for his skills. And your kids learn something, so include their savings also.
– Share tools with like-minded friends
– probably can buy cheaper oil in bulk
– I personally do not follow that. I try to get to a Jewish mechanic, learn and work while he is doing his thing, and I have a chance to say something nice to him. He used to let me sit in his office for a major repair.Avram, Syag, again, I mention these issues because they (in my opinion) affect how one should behave. So, I can’t make a general statement that covers both people who are self-sustaining and those who take money from others. I brought R Salanter as an example, I am not against R Salanter, I hope you are also not.
No, you mention these issues because they affect how you think others should behave but imply several times that they aren’t. The Chofetz Chaim disapproves of that. I hope you aren’t against the xhofetz chaim.
> how you think others should behave but imply several times that they aren’t.
So, if you agree with the proposed path and think that people are doing that, please inform me of that.
If you disagree, then explain why. That is what discussions are for.What proposed path? I was calling you out on your mistruth that you bring it up because it because it addicts people’s lives and clarifying that you actually bring it up because you are trying to accuse a group of people of doing things wrong even tho they aren’t. What part of that confused you? There’s no discussion to be had on you calling out an imaginary scenario. Except to tell you to stop doing it.
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