November 26, 2021 7:57 am at 7:57 am #2034313blurgtrodParticipant
I’m making a simcha (aprox 60 people) with a small, local caterer who as part of their pricing listed an extra $400 premium for using their party room on channukah Has anybody heard of such a thing or a rationale behind this? I know they’re available pretty much every night of channuka so I don’t think it’s a demand type of thing. It’s also not at night, so it’s not like I’m asking them to work any time close to lighting.
Is this normal in the industry?November 26, 2021 10:09 am at 10:09 am #2034392MosheFromMidwoodParticipant
why not just ask what is it for?November 26, 2021 11:06 am at 11:06 am #2034406
They are charging a premium price because they anticipate (correctly or not) that the demand will be greater during the Chanukah period and perhaps a few days before and after. Peak demand pricing is a standard market practice whether on the bridge/highway tolls during rush hour, airfares to EY around yom tovim, hotel rooms in Florida for Pesach etc.
I’m glad some smaller merchants, who have been squeezed out during two years of Covid lockdowns and restrictions are using variable pricing to capture additional margins where they have some pricing power. They don’t have to cost-justify the surcharge. Its a free market and a caterer or simcha hall is not a public utility.
Pay the extra charge and enjoy you simcha.November 26, 2021 11:06 am at 11:06 am #2034516yaakov doeParticipant
Congestion pricing?November 26, 2021 12:09 pm at 12:09 pm #2034542
yaakovdoe: peak load pricing, congestion pricing etc. all work off the basic dynamics of supply demand imbalances and increasing prices until the market clears. The concept has been around since the time of Moishe Rabainu.November 26, 2021 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm #2034600Shimon NodelParticipant
It may seem unfair, but he is justifiedNovember 27, 2021 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #2034761Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
I think halacha allows that as long as you are aware of the pricing. If you were to come in without doing market research and he would add the price without explaining, this would be wrong and you could demand it back if overcharge was more than 1/6 (20 percent of normal price)November 27, 2021 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #2034867
“I think halacha allows that as long as you are aware of the pricing..”
Obviously, if you signed a fixed price contract for X dollars, and the caterer arbitrarily tried to add a $400 surcharge after the fact, you could just ignore such a request. However, its obvious from your question you were aware of the “premium” in advance and in such cases, either halacha or civil law, its your choice whether to pay up or go find another caterer. Again, a caterer, simcha hall, Badchen, etc. can charge whatever he or she wants and there is no halacha that dictates pricing for services offered for sale. The price is whatever the parties to a transaction agree to.November 27, 2021 10:08 pm at 10:08 pm #2034888☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
I think halacha allows that as long as you are aware of the pricing. If you were to come in without doing market research and he would add the price without explaining, this would be wrong and you could demand it back if overcharge was more than 1/6 (20 percent of normal price)
There no ona’ah on real estate, and that’s what a room rental is.
Might be a poor business decision if it annoys the customers too much, but I don’t otherwise see a problem with it.November 27, 2021 10:31 pm at 10:31 pm #2034895
” The price is whatever the parties to a transaction agree to…
Correcting my own overly-broad comment. As reported here over the past several years, Rabbonim in various communities have placed caps on how much should be spent on weddings and potentially other simchas. I would imagine that in those communities for those who subscribed to the views of that daas torah, yidden would be obligated to limit what is charged so as to allow baalei simcha to stay within those caps.. In those cases, I believe the simcha halls, worked with specific caterers, photographers, florists, etc. to offer a “package price” for all the services that was within the allowable budget.November 28, 2021 11:06 am at 11:06 am #2035060hujuParticipant
Special Chanukkah fee? I know a kosher caterer who charges a Xmas fee in December.November 28, 2021 12:51 pm at 12:51 pm #2035132Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
DY > There no ona’ah on real estate, and that’s what a room rental is.
Is this so? I did not think of catering as RE transaction? Is the hall the ikar or is the food and service?
You may be right as the bottleneck allowing a fee is due to RE. Thanks for the correction.
As Gadol mentions this could be up to community beis din/Rov to limit such fees. Maybe allow fee for “Chanuka parties” per se, but not for the brisim and bar mitzvas
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