January 6, 2014 4:13 am at 4:13 am #611759
Has anyone used this type of therapy? Was it helpful?January 6, 2014 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #1032371
it’s narishkeitJanuary 6, 2014 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #1032372charliehallParticipant
Not narishkeit at all. It has been shown to effectively treat anxiety, depression, and other problems. Many frum therapists specialize in it.January 6, 2014 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #1032373☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
See? It didn’t work.January 6, 2014 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #1032374
Most CBT practitioners use psychotherapy for themselves…January 6, 2014 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #1032375
CBT is the most effective psychotherapy used for depression, anxiety and a bunch of other disorders. It has been clinically and statistically proven to work. Arguing otherwise is just plain wrong.January 6, 2014 11:16 pm at 11:16 pm #1032376
It’s not foolproof.January 6, 2014 11:19 pm at 11:19 pm #1032377
CBT works. I know someone that practices it and trust me- its real.January 6, 2014 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #1032378
It’s not foolproof, but neither is any other treatment.January 7, 2014 1:24 am at 1:24 am #1032379
It’s narishkeit. The “studies” are bogus.
Hagah atzmecha, the studies show they can cure anxiety in 10 sessions or something, yes? Do you know anyone who was cured in 10 sessions? No.January 7, 2014 1:39 am at 1:39 am #1032380
Could you please support yourself with evidence?
Nobody claims that you can cure anxiety in 10 sessions. What psychologists claim is that you can treat abnormal anxiety in a limited number of sessions. It’s not a cure. It’s a treatment. People with anxiety disorders will always have their anxiety. What CBT can do is teach the patient ways to live with their anxiety.January 7, 2014 2:01 am at 2:01 am #1032381
They claim positive results. It’s for a extremely irrational and anxious person and I hope it helps. This is part of a treatment process package. For those who are knowledgeable does the person’s age or gender make a difference?January 7, 2014 2:14 am at 2:14 am #1032382
The age and gender make no difference on the efficacy of the treatment.January 7, 2014 2:21 am at 2:21 am #1032383
Thanks, Would you know the length of sessions, and should they be scheduled after a routine checkup by the psychiatrist. How often should they be going weekly, bi-weekly. Please answer if you can help this is a serious inquiry.January 7, 2014 2:50 am at 2:50 am #1032384
Every situation is different. Ask your therapist or maybe your psychiatrist…
BTW- if you want to hear more about this kind of therapy from someone that practices it- Mordechai Weinberger LCSW has a phone hotmline with daily questions and answers, shiurim etc. The # is 718-298-2011January 7, 2014 2:57 am at 2:57 am #1032385
Could you please support yourself with evidence?
Westen, D., Novotny, C., and Thompson-Brenner, H. (2004). The empirical status of empirically supported therapies: Assumptions, methods, and findings. Psychological Bulletin, 130, 631-663.January 7, 2014 3:14 am at 3:14 am #1032386
theartofmoi, thank you I have asked I always like a second opinion, I learned that in this type of field you have to be two steps ahead of the game. They’re making money $600 an evaluation for shrink, $350 per therapy session,
Plus, I’m a bit skepticalJanuary 7, 2014 3:19 am at 3:19 am #1032387🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
popa is answering from a text book point of view. In real life, CBT does work for some people. I have seen it do great things for kids and adults who have anxiety or ADHD, who don’t want to use medication. If you try it for a bit and don’t see results, it might not be for you.January 7, 2014 3:28 am at 3:28 am #1032388The little I knowParticipant
I marvel at the imbecility of some of the commenters here. CBT is a reputable therapy technique, and there is a huge body of evidence of its efficacy – both with formal scientific studies and with the anecdotal reports of thousands of practitioners. However, the saichel of the street wishes to proclaim it as “narishkeit”. Well, guess what? If I will feel the need to benefit from therapy, I will seek advice from a professional who is properly trained, not the mental midgets that opine about matters they have not studied and do not understand. I’m sorry about the name calling – it is not personal (can’t be with anonymous screen names). It is just troubling to hear the pronouncements coming from the position of ignorance.January 7, 2014 3:44 am at 3:44 am #1032389ihearMember
Your username should be more then skin deep “the little I know” ,of course nothing personal, but by you saying that “troubling to hear the pronouncements coming from the position of ignorance” that’s pretty rough don’t you think? I mean you have no idea, since we are all anon here, if popa is a psychotherapist or if anyone else is for that matter, maybe popa is very well versed in cbt, maybe they have a personal friend whom it hadn’t worked for after all popa brought proofs that it doesn’t work, I haven’t checked those but still I think you are coming with the presupposition that we are all typical close minded frummies and have no clue what cbt even is and I for one won’t stand for it, do not hold yourself on a higher standard if you don’t know what the other actually knowsJanuary 7, 2014 4:00 am at 4:00 am #1032390
This Popa Bar Abba guy is utterly and completely wrong. CBT is empirically supported and evidence-based. I am a frum guy in a doctoral program in clinical psychology. The study that this Popa guy quoted does not even appear to have anything to do with CBT. I wonder if he even knows what CBT is. Hey Popa, check this one out-
Andrew C. Butler, Jason E. Chapman, Evan M. Forman, Aaron T. Beck, The empirical status of cognitive-behavioral therapy: A review of meta-analyses, Clinical Psychology Review, Volume 26, Issue 1, January 2006, Pages 17-31
For those that don’t know, the above is a more recent study than the one popa bar abba cited and it was specifically on CBT and proved that it can be very effective for certain disorders. Original Poster – it works and may very likely be able to help you or whoever you know that’s looking into it. Good luck!January 7, 2014 4:09 am at 4:09 am #1032391
And I think your position is ignorance.January 7, 2014 4:49 am at 4:49 am #1032392
Popa, one study arguing that randomly controlled trials need evaluation says nothing of the efficacy of CBT.
The American Psychological Association lists CBT as a empirically validated treatment. It has been shown to be more effective than control groups numerous times. Just look at its wiki page. It links to many studies showing its effectiveness.January 7, 2014 4:59 am at 4:59 am #1032393🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Just a guess but I don’t think popa ever heard of CBT before this thread posted. That’s why he’s called a troll.January 7, 2014 5:27 am at 5:27 am #1032394SaysMeMember
i scream- yes a second opinion is always a good idea, but this isnt the place to get it. Call relief or a therapy referral line and get s/o to speak to.
Cbt is one kind of therapy. It works for some people, for some circumstances and issues. Other therrapies work better for other ppl or other issues. Some people need a combo. Some people need something specific. Some people can benefit from any one of a few choices. And some can benefit from a therapy but dont match well with their therapist and need to find a more compatible match for themselves. Only a certified therapist or doctor who knows your specifics and details can give you reliable advice. Seriously not an open forum full of trolls and anonymous names who can be 15 or 75January 7, 2014 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #1032395
The American Psychological Association lists CBT as a empirically validated treatment.
Now we agree with the APA? lol
Go look up what they say about medications.January 7, 2014 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #1032396
If you hold of psychology, wouldn’t it make sense to agree with it’s primary organization?
The APA has nothing to do with medication. They’re psychologists, not psychiatrists. They deal with psychotherapy, not drug therapy.January 7, 2014 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #1032397
If you hold of psychology, wouldn’t it make sense to agree with it’s primary organization?
No, why would it?
If I agree with Judaism, does that mean I agree with the Reform Movement which is probably its primary organization?January 7, 2014 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #1032398
Everyone agrees with some form of psychology.January 7, 2014 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #1032399
Popa, it’s the most prestigious of any psychological organization. It’s the gold standard of psychology.January 7, 2014 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #1032400
Let me ask you a question. How many practicing psychoanalysts are out there? How many people practice humanistic psychology? How about gestalt?
The answer is very few, if any. The reason is because there is no evidence for these therapies. While psychoanalysis might sound nice,and roger’s therapy may make you feel nice, they have not shown to be effective. CBT on the other hand has shown to work.
It’s a very simple theory. People can change their behaviors. People can change their thoughts. That’s the premise of CBT. The therapist helps the patient work through their irrational or circular reasoning, and instructs them on how to change their maladaptive behavior.January 7, 2014 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1032401
Ok, so you agree with them on everything?January 7, 2014 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #1032402
If they have evidence to back up what they say. And they usually do.January 7, 2014 10:58 pm at 10:58 pm #1032403
Matan, Good to hear, I found out more about the specifics. Will figure out how to proceed.January 7, 2014 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #1032404
If they have evidence to back up what they say. And they usually do.
So, then you mean to say, “no, I don’t agree with them”. You just use them as mareh mekomos to find research.January 8, 2014 12:02 am at 12:02 am #1032405
In any event, CBT effectively treats only symptoms of mental illness. It is sold as just a plan to cope with it. It completely gives up on addressing the causes of it, and in doing so is probably missing many other symptoms.
Suppose someone suffers from anxiety and depression, and the reason is that they have a low self image, owing to perfectionism based on misperceptions of what success and failure are.
So now they come to the pseudo-psychologist and he tells them that when they feel down, they should force themselves to think about happy outcomes. So then one day he is in yeshiva and is scared about looking bad in shiur, but he just thinks about happy outcomes and it all works out.
And then one day he is dating someone, and are scared to marry them because they find something imperfect–because nothing is ever perfect. So he thinks about happy outcomes instead. But does he marry her? Wouldn’t it have been nice if he had seen a real psychologist who had gotten to the root of his issue instead?January 8, 2014 12:13 am at 12:13 am #1032406
True, I can’t say I always agree with them, but as flagship organization for psychologists in the United States and Canada, you should not toss away their positions lightly.
Might I ask why you have such a negative view of the APA?January 8, 2014 12:34 am at 12:34 am #1032407
When I get my degree, I plan on doing both CBT and subconsious work for the reason popa brought up.January 8, 2014 12:36 am at 12:36 am #1032409
“Wouldn’t it have been nice if he had seen a real psychologist who had gotten to the root of his issue instead”
What exactly could a “real psychologist” do?January 8, 2014 12:38 am at 12:38 am #1032410
“And then one day he is dating someone, and are scared to marry them because they find something imperfect–because nothing is ever perfect. So he thinks about happy outcomes instead. But does he marry her? “
What on earth does this have to do with CBT? Anxiety about dating is completely normal. There is nothing harmful about it.January 8, 2014 12:45 am at 12:45 am #1032411
Popa, I think you are lacking a basic understanding of CBT. Anxiety or depression aren’t causes by negative behaviors or thinking. They are most likely biological illnesses. But their symptoms manifest in physical behaviors and thoughts. CBT is not about curing mental illness. It’s about managing the symptoms. Once you’ve mastered that, there isn’t much else to do.
Of course, there are plenty of cases that require medication. But this does not mean that the symptoms are unimportant in treatment.January 8, 2014 12:56 am at 12:56 am #1032412
What a great comment – And your position is ignorance. And yet, you can’t even say why. It’s very easy to call stupid and not give an explanation why. People with an intelligence above age 3 are generally able to also explain their point so that they actually have some credibility, which you don’t. Here is the definition of empirical from webster
Now if you educate yourself and learn what empirical studies entail, they follow the scientific method and if efficacy of a treatment is proven, which CBT has been, then one can say with a nice amount of confidence that it is a reliable and valid form of treatment. Go educate yourself, if you’re capable of that.
link removed. next time post will be deleted. read the rules. -127January 8, 2014 12:57 am at 12:57 am #1032413
Anxiety or depression aren’t causes by negative behaviors or thinking. They are most likely biological illnesses. But their symptoms manifest in physical behaviors and thoughts. CBT is not about curing mental illness. It’s about managing the symptoms. Once you’ve mastered that, there isn’t much else to do.
Right, so I completely disagree with that assertion, and think it is the height of narishkeit.January 8, 2014 1:00 am at 1:00 am #1032414
Thanks for writing that. Eloquence was never my thing 🙂January 8, 2014 1:04 am at 1:04 am #1032415
Feel free to disagree. Just letting you know, when there is clear empirical evidence in support of something, calling it narishkeit won’t change it. In fact, arguing against it makes someone look plain ignorant.January 8, 2014 1:08 am at 1:08 am #1032417
Oh, and just what empirical evidence is there for the narishkeit that depression is biological? None.January 8, 2014 1:21 am at 1:21 am #1032418
Google serotonin hypothesis. And neurogenesis.
But I’m confused. Do you believe that depression is an illness? Because you don’t think it’s cognitive, behavioral or biological.January 8, 2014 1:28 am at 1:28 am #1032419
Popa, you really are a completely ignorant person. If you knew anything about neuropsychology, you would know that there are MANY psychological disorders that have biological bases, depression included. Depression is most often treated with SSRI’s – Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor. These inhibit the “feel good” neurotransmitter in the brain, serotonin, from being re-absorbed, thus in layman’s terms, leaving more of it out in the brain to help the person feel good. The reason these work is because often people with depression either fail to produce the correct amounts of these neurotransmitters. And of course, CBT has also been shown empirically to help because as the people change their thought patterns (the cognitive part in CBT), they can produce more.
This is all said in layman’s terms for the uneducated people, like Popa. I’m done lecturing here. Popa, please stop shooting your mouth off and discouraging another person, a fellow Jew I might add, from seeking the help that he or his loved ones require. Go find somewhere else to get your kicks.January 8, 2014 2:16 am at 2:16 am #1032420
They don’t work.January 8, 2014 2:27 am at 2:27 am #1032422
Depression is most often treated with SSRI’s – Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor. These inhibit the “feel good” neurotransmitter in the brain, serotonin, from being re-absorbed, thus in layman’s terms, leaving more of it out in the brain to help the person feel good. The reason these work is because often people with depression either fail to produce the correct amounts of these neurotransmitters
Of course. And the reason Tylenol relieves headaches is these people’s brain fails to produce the correct amount of Tylenol.
Before calling me ignorant, did you stop for even one second to consider that maybe depression causes there to be less serotonin, rather than being caused by it?
If I get angry, don’t you think that releases different neurotransmitters in my brain? So am I angry because of the neurotransmitters, or because I stubbed my toe?
I’m trying to help my fellow jews, and prevent them from wasting time and money with charlatans instead of going for real therapy.
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