Cellphone Jammers in Shuls

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  • This topic contains 72 replies, has 24 voices, and was last updated by  NOYB 3 months ago.
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  • #618420

    Joseph
    Participant

    The latest technology to fight the scourge of cellphone usage in shuls is cellphone jammers being installed in shuls. B’H it is very effective in the shuls that have already installed them. They also install a dedicated landline that can only be used to call Hatzalah and 9-1-1.

    #1184153

    takahmamash
    Participant

    Now what happens, say, if someone misses an emergency phone call because the frequency was jammed? Is the shule then liable for damages?

    And then there’s this, that I picked up off a website dedicated to electronic communications:

    #1184154

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    There was a terrorist attack in jerusalem a couple of years ago. I think 4 men were stabbed by the terrorist. It seems the shul emnployed a cell phone jamming device and people could not call for help.

    Because people were running for the door, it created a log jam of people trying to get out and it took longer for help to come and the terrorist was able to inflict more damage.

    #1184155

    so what exactly is a cell phone jammer? as soon as someone enters the shull building his phone is out of frequency & pretty much dead until he leaves?

    #1184156

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    MA

    Pretty much so

    They are illegal in most countries

    #1184157

    dovrosenbaum
    Participant

    What about people who use a siddur app? Don’t say they should use a physical book.

    #1184158

    Sparkly
    Member

    its rude to use cell phones at shul.

    #1184160

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    A “jammer” basically blocks (jams) the signal.

    #1184161

    kollelman
    Participant

    They are highly illegal and the feds have been prosecuting importers, distributors and users of jammers. They are also quite dangerous as mentioned already. People need to control themselves. Forcing people to do or not do anything, usually tends to have the opposite effect.

    I’m not discounting the need for Kavod in a shul, but I don’t believe this is an acceptable way to address the issue.

    #1184162

    takahmamash
    Participant

    its rude to use cell phones at shul.

    Your opinion may or may not be true, but either way, it’s still illegal to use a jammer to block the signal.

    #1184163

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    ZD- is the info about jamming phones in the Har Nof shul reliable? it doesn’t really fit the image of that particular shul and its mispallelim. Besides, I think they were running for the exit to get away from the terrorist, not so that they could go make a phone call. Doubtful security forces could come quickly enough to prevent the massacre whether or not someone immediately called for help.

    4 mispallelim were killed inside the shul, plus the druze traffic policeman who bravely responded to the attack and was killed outside the shul, and 1 more mispallel died of his wounds about a year later.

    #1184164

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    If someone is coming into the shul stabbing peple, its not rude to use it

    Also unfortunatly there have been incidents in my shuls where Hatzolah needed to be called (A few doctors carry their phones 24/7)

    #1184165

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Yes, the haf Nof Shul had cell phone jammers, it came out in several news sources

    #1184166

    Person1
    Member

    Seems like a pretty cool idea. Why is everyone against it? Don’t you at least see the pros?

    #1184167

    Meno
    Participant

    “Why is everyone against it?”

    There were two arguments against it brought up in this thread:

    1) It’s illegal

    2) It’s dangerous

    #1184168

    apushatayid
    Participant

    3)It doesnt teach someone to not use a cell phone in shul. all they have to do is move on to another shul.

    #1184169

    Person1
    Member

    Meno I felt the reasons given weren’t enough to explain the attitude.

    What I think about the reasons:

    It’s illeagal: that just make it impposible to carry out. It doesn’t make it a bad idea theoretically (And does anyone what the background for this law? Why was it necessery to make it?)

    Dangerous: If there is an emergency you could use the landline. Some people have big homes. Do they carry their phone with them around the house in case there is an emergency?

    I just think it’s ok to have it. I’m not saying every beit kneset should have it.

    #1184170

    Person1
    Member

    apushatayid at least this way it doesn’t disturb other people by ringing loudly.

    #1184171

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Not every shul has a landline and even if it does, it might be in a place that is not easy to get to (Like a locked door) or the doorway is blocked for some other reason ie the stabber is right in front of it

    #1184172

    kollelman
    Participant

    There is another issue, namely that the jammers cannot be confined to work in a specific area. The jamming signal will escape the shul and negatively affects neighbors, people walking nearby, cars on the road, first responders in the neighborhood, etc. This is why the FCC has been actively pursuing anyone using these jammers.

    PLEASE don’t attempt to do illegal activities to bring kavod to the shul. When [not if], the feds arrest the people involved, the Chillul Hashem will not be worth it. We don’t need more “Hasidic Jews” or “Rabbis” in the news for doing illegal things.

    #1184173

    feivel
    Participant

    Joseph, are these jammers being installed in Shuls in the us, where they are illegal, or in Israel where they are legal?

    #1184174

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Dovrosenbaum: why shouldn’t they use a physical book? You can’t use the phone on Shabbos anyways.

    #1184175

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    They are not legal in Israel either.

    And its not true you cant use the phone on shabbos, You can use it for an emergency which I have seen more than once and Hatzoloah had to be called

    #1184176

    Joseph
    Participant

    Feivel, I heard about them being used in shuls in Eretz Yisroel.

    #1184177

    feivel
    Participant

    Me too.

    So most of the comments regarding the us law aspect to the issue are moot.

    #1184178

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    “And its not true you cant use the phone on shabbos, You can use it for an emergency”

    So in case of an emergency, you can open the siddur app on Shabbos?

    And you’ve seen that done?

    Because the poster was talking about, using the siddur app on the phone.

    And as far as the phone being ossur in case of emergency, that is dependent on whether Shabbos is hutrah or hudcha.

    #1184179

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    “There was a terrorist attack in jerusalem a couple of years ago. I think 4 men were stabbed by the terrorist. It seems the shul emnployed a cell phone jamming device and people could not call for help.”

    What an inane comment.

    According to you, a person should not turn off his phone when going to shul to daven and should actually constantly look and check their phone, incase there may be an emergency.

    That’s is patently ridiculous.

    Also, then everyone should take a cell phone with them everywhere, even on Shabbos, Yom Tov, Yom Kippur.

    #1184180

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Because the poster was talking about, using the siddur app on the phone.

    One poster made such a comment, but that’s not the pint. A jammer may or may not prevent a siddur app from working, but will definitely prevent phone calls from being made.

    And as far as the phone being ossur in case of emergency, that is dependent on whether Shabbos is hutrah or hudcha.

    Huh? It depends whether there’s situation of pikuach nefesh. Either way, the jammers aren’t there because of Shabbos.

    According to you, a person should not turn off his phone when going to shul to daven and should actually constantly look and check their phone, incase there may be an emergency.

    No, according to him, the phone should be usable in an emergency.

    #1184181

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Some people dont know the differnce between carrying a phone , turning off the ringer and checking it every 2 minuets. And no not everyone needs to carry it on shabbos, but at least 2 people in every shul (Usually doctors) should have access to one in case of an emergency. Like I said, Ive seen it happen more than once.

    And Once it looked really scary. Thankfully one of the doctors was there , and was able to call Hatzolah

    #1184182

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    ZD, all you need is a landline in an accessible place. If there are no doctors on call (who may have a heter to carry a phone) it would not be muttar to carry a phone “just in case”.

    #1184183

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    /nishtdayngesheft: thank you for clarifying what I wrote. Of course I meant that you can’t use the siddur app. However, if one has a landline to use and the cell phone is off the preferred choice might be to use the landline. As to cellphones in general, I don’t take mine to shule.

    #1184184

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    In my shul, we do not have a landline and the phones are carried by the doctors.

    Jammers have nothing to do with siddurs apps, they will work without internet

    #1184185

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I think that’s irresponsible; what if one week the doctors are all away? Anyhow, the point wasn’t your shul, the point was shul with a jammer. It doesn’t have to be unsafe as long as there’s an accessible landline, as the OP said.

    Yes, the siddur app was completely a side point, but as an aside on the side point, some siddur apps will insert as necessary according to the day and season, e.g. Ya’aleh V’yavo, V’sein B’rachah, and that might not work if there’s a jammer.

    #1184186

    dovrosenbaum
    Participant

    By your logic, there should be no lights in shul because we can’t manipulate them on Shabbos. Or I should only eat cold food during the week because on Shabbos, I can’t cook. Totally flawed logic.

    #1184187

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    What logic are you referring to?

    #1184188

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    dovrosenbaum: Why do you need a siddur app on the phone when you have printed siddurim in the shul? What does this have to with other hilchos shabbos? did you use your phone with an app for Kinnos? Are you downloading a selichos app?

    #1184189

    takahmamash
    Participant

    Why do you need a siddur app on the phone when you have printed siddurim in the shul?

    Because sometimes there are inconsiderate people that daven directly in front of the bookshelf where the siddurim are located.

    #1184190

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Regarding dont disturb other people. If the shul with jammers was seriiously concerned with that, and they dealt with those who talk during davening in a serious manner, I would consider the argument for the use of a jammer. until then, its just another excuse.

    #1184191

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Why do you need a siddur app on the phone when you have printed siddurim in the shul?

    I used a siddur app in shul when we had a blackout.

    (Yeah, I know… it was probably better that I not daven at all rather than use a lighted screen.)

    The Wolf

    #1184192

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Wolf: flashlights? Candles? Or as my shul has emergency lights that turn on when there is a blackout.

    #1184193

    yehudayona
    Participant

    Emergency lights last only a few hours. They were useless in the Rockaways in the two weeks post-Sandy when LIPA (the utility, not the singer) messed up big time.

    #1184194

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Wolf: flashlights?

    You think my davening would be better while trying to manage a flashlight in one hand and a siddur in the other than with my Ipad siddur app?

    Candles?

    An even worse suggestion. I would constantly be afraid of either dropping it myself or someone else dropping one.

    Or as my shul has emergency lights that turn on when there is a blackout.

    That’s nice. The shul I was daveining in didn’t have one. Or were you suggesting that we delay davening that morning until we could get one installed?

    The Wolf

    #1184195

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Emergency lights is actually the law for shuls. If a shul doesnt have one, go to another one.

    #1184196

    Meno
    Participant

    So people are against cell phone jammers because there might be a blackout lasting more than a few hours, but shorter than the life of of your phone battery, and you would then need to use a siddur on your phone?

    #1184197

    apushatayid
    Participant

    I’m against cell phone jammers because they dont teach anything. Teach biur tefilla. Teach what it means to have proper kavod for hashem and his house. Jammers just mean someone moves on to a shul that doesnt have them and continues the same abhorrent practice of using their phone for improper things while in shul.

    #1184198

    Joseph
    Participant

    Are you also against no talking in shul signs and rabbis that ask people talking during davening to leave? After all, that “just mean someone moves on to a shul that doesnt” enforce a no talking in shul rule.

    #1184199

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Jammers are not “no talking in shul signs”, the equivilant is “dont use your phone in shul” sign. Jammers are the equivilant of saying, we want you to do this. If you dont, we wont let you anyway. We dont care that you are bored in shul because you have no idea what yu are saying, what is going on, who you are talking to or why, we will use jammers to make sure you cant use your phone. Aleviate your boredom some other way, of course not by talking, perhaps by pulling out a sefer and learning during davening.

    #1184200

    Joseph
    Participant

    Jammers isn’t much different than the shul rov asking people talking during davening to leave the shul, as some shul rabbonim will do. In fact, jamming is less insulting than asking him to leave shul.

    Even if the result of jamming, or asking him to leave, “merely” results in him hanging out in another, more talk-accommodating, shul.

    #1184202

    benignuman
    Participant

    Now if only there were jammers for people’s mouths . . .

    #1184203


    Participant

    Emergency lights is actually the law for shuls. If a shul doesnt have one, go to another one.

    Not all areas need emergency lighting, only the exit path needs to be lit. Additionally it only need to be a brightness of 1 foot-candle and only needs to run for 90 minutes.

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