Chabad minhagim

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  • This topic contains 37 replies, has 19 voices, and was last updated by  Matan1 4 years ago.
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  • #615868

    mik5
    Participant

    In honor of Gimmel Tammuz, some interesting Chabad minhagim:

    1. Do not skip in Pesukei D’zimra, even at the expense of reciting the Amidah together with the minyan (as per the ruling of the Lubavitcher Rebbe)

    2. Daven after zman tefilla, l’chatchila (based in part on the personal minhag of the Previous Rebbe to always commence reciting the morning prayers at 10 AM)

    3. Every person makes his own hamotzi upon receiving a piece of challah from the baal ha’bayis, even after having heard hamotzi from the baal habayis and responded Amein.

    4. Not to wash for shalosh seudos, l’chatchila

    5. To permit answering Kaddish, Kedusha, Borchu, Amen to certain brachos, etc. in-between donning the tefillin shel yad and the tefillin shel rosh (as per the Alter Rebbe’s siddur)

    6. To permit (and, indeed, require) eating mezonos (and sometimes more) before reciting the morning prayers (Rebbe’s instruction and personal minhag)

    #1088477

    mik5
    Participant

    # 1, 2 are contrary to the Mishna Berura.

    # 5 is DEFINITELY contrary to halacha – and the Alter Rebbe is the only posek who holds that this is OK l’chatchila.

    # 6… what is there to say?

    #1088478

    IvduEsHashemBsimcha
    Participant

    #3 just means saying your own bracha instead of being yotzei with the ba’al habayis. I’m not from chabad and I have this minhag too, though we pass the challas to everyone to say hamotzi before they are cut.

    #1088479

    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    Per Sefer Haminhagim, #1 applies to korbanos as well.

    #4 has an interesting story behind it, it came about (from the dan l’kaf zechus perspective) as a way to preserve shalom.

    #6 is slightly misleading. The Lubavitcher rebbe z’ya told people not to be so frum and think that they can have kavana without eating before davening shacharis at 10 am. I highly doubt he told balabatim who daven early to eat breakfast first, and most Lubavitchers who I know don’t on weekdays.

    #1088481

    mik5
    Participant

    ItcheSrulik – It says in the Chabad siddur that korbanos are said at home, and in shul one starts davening with the tzibbur from Hodu.

    The Lubavitcher Rebbe was not a posek.

    Many poskim forbid eating before davening. The Zohar forbids it in very strong terms. The Kav HaYoshar compares it to idolatry. Some say that it is forbidden from the Torah (“Do not eat upon the blood”).

    But the Lubavitcher Rebbe allowed and encouraged eating before davening. My rav is extremely upset about this. You can ask Rav Belsky what he thinks about this “psak” of the Lubavitcher Rebbe.

    Not washing for shalosh seudos- There is a simple reason for this, as well as a chassidic reason.

    The simple reason is that the Torah says, “And Moses said: Eat it TODAY, for TODAY is Shabbos to Hashem, TODAY you will not find it in the field.” The third time it says the word “not.” Therefore, it is learned out from here that one need not eat bread by the third meal.

    Like I said, there is also a chassidic explanation.

    IvduesHashembsimcha – Like you said, your minhag is different from the Chabad minhag. Why is it not a problem of hefsek – the way you do it?

    #1088482


    Participant

    I don’t see any merit to this thread whatsoever. Why mention 6 Minhagim that appear contrary to Halacha without context?

    Every group has Minhagim that appear contrary to Halacha and Chabad also has many Minhagim that are in line with Halacha.

    #1088483

    mik5
    Participant

    “Every group has Minhagim that appear contrary to Halacha.”

    Perhaps you could provide some context by explaining why these minhagim only “appear” to be contrary to halacha, but in truth are in full accordance with halacha.

    I have already provided the explanation for not washing by shalosh seudos, and ItcheSrulik has discussed the “justification” for eating before davening.

    “Chabad also has many Minhagim that are in line with Halacha” – such as?

    #1088484

    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    mik5: Your “simple explanation” is the one that Lubavitchers tell as a joke.

    Dash: Some people find minhagim interesting. For example, did you know that some Hungarians still say slichos on 20 Sivan for tach v’tat?

    #1088485

    147
    Participant

    2. Daven after zman tefilla, l’chatchila (based in part on the personal minhag of the Previous Rebbe to always commence reciting the morning prayers at 10 AM) R’H & Y’K also @10AM?

    Question Mik5:- Shabbos Erev Pesach:- Also @10AM? At least on Erev Peach, your system of not making Motzie for Seudo Shelishis works out perfectly.

    #1088486

    Excellence
    Participant

    People are only posting half a thought. I move either for proper discussion, or thread closure. There’s too mch misleading info in just the first few contributors.

    For eg, the Chabad custom permits breakfast before shacharis – if you won’t concentrate on tefilla from hunger. Of course, you would be saying the preliminary berachos before. And bear in mind as well, our generation is weak – weaker than earlier ones. There are many many facests to the equation.

    And furthermore, the Rebbe of Rimanov has some interesting chiddushei Torah on the Jews gathering monn in the desert before davening. Please read it to gain a deeper insight.

    #1088487

    Sam2
    Participant

    #1 is an Arizal, I believe. And yes, the Lubavitcher Rebbe was very much a Posek. He may not have been R’ Moshe, but he Paskened thousands of Shailos weekly, if not daily. He was a Gaon BaTorah, just read his Seforim.

    #1088488

    IvduEsHashemBsimcha
    Participant

    mik5 – it doesn’t take almost any more time than the way most people do it.

    #1088490

    re #1: the Zohar seems to indicate that it is not worth skipping Pesukei Dzimra, but the Chacham Tzvi explains the Zohar is not talking about when one is late but rather is emphasizing importance of pesukei dzimra.

    #1088491

    147
    Participant

    emphasizing importance of pesukei dzimra. How about emphsizing the extreme incredible importance of arriving at services on time {with enough time to don Talis & Tefillin before commencement of services}

    #1088492

    Excellence
    Participant

    The Me’am Lo’ez cannot overstress enough the benefit and importance of saying the korbanos and ketores. Indeed, the Ben Ish Chai lists 13 benefits of saying it. Well worth the extra 10-15 mins!

    #1088493

    Geordie613
    Participant

    How can people speak against a group keeping the minhagim of their Rebbe?! The Lubavitcher Rebbe Zatzal was an Odom Godol. He paskened for his chasidim, and therefore they are obliged to follow.

    Someone once said, The mishna brura is for baalei tshuva and geirim, meaning that if you have a mesorah and an established minhag, you follow that even if it may be contrary to the accepted halocha. Minhag Yisroel Torah.

    For example, as Yekkes, we go by the psakim of the Maharil, who was before the Shulchan oruch. Therefore you may find an Ashkenaz shul with a minhag to daven mincha after shkiah. Now, most people don’t know that, and it is contrary to the mishnah brura, but that is the minhag.

    #1088494

    gofish
    Member

    The reason Chabad davens after zman tefillah is not because they wake up late, but because they learn (after saying birchas Hatorah) Chassidus before davening to enhance their kavanah during davening.

    Many great Chassidishe Rebbes and Chassidim of old davened after zman tefillah because of their intense hachanos for tefillah.

    #1088495

    Excellence
    Participant

    Also remember, respectfully, late prayers are for people who don’t necessaily work in the outside world. They have the time. For the rest of us, it’s the “7am minyan.”

    #1088496

    mdd
    Member

    Geordie613, there can be a machlokes among Poskim and different ways of doing things because of that. The OP brought down rulings which are shvere.

    #1088497

    ABS-SA
    Participant

    It is noteworthy that every mention of the (late) Lubavitcher Rebbe in the original post is in the present tense. Just saying!

    #1088498

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    7. During Aleinu, fill your mouth with phlegm then spit on the ground.

    Never really understood that one.

    #1088499

    MDG
    Participant

    “Also remember, respectfully, late prayers are for people who don’t necessaily work in the outside world. They have the time. For the rest of us, it’s the “7am minyan.”

    I had a Chabad friend who would say Sh’ma, eat breakfast, learn Chassidus from 8-10 am, then daven. I never understood that. In my opinion, if you feel that learning 2 hours is necessary preparation, then wake up 2 hours earlier and daven at 8.

    ___________________________________

    “7. During Aleinu, fill your mouth with phlegm then spit on the ground.

    Never really understood that one.”

    Spitting is done after “sheHeim Mishtahavim…” (They bow to nothingness…)

    2 reasons: 1) Show disgust about paganism 2) creates separation between talking about their A”Z and our serving Hashem.

    #1088500

    charliehall
    Participant

    “The Lubavitcher Rebbe was not a posek.”

    Rav Soloveitchik z’tz’l also didn’t consider himself a posek. But between the two of them, they probably established the minhagim for most orthodox synagogues in America.

    #1088501

    charliehall
    Participant

    “The mishna brura”

    The author of the mishna berurah also didn’t consider himself a posek. The author of the Aruch HaShulchan actually WAS a posek.

    #1088502

    Sam2
    Participant

    ABS: What, you’ve never said, “Rashi says”?

    #1088503

    mik5
    Participant

    “The Lubavitcher Rebbe Zatzal was an Odom Godol.”

    It is well-known that Rav Schach did not consider the Lubavitcher Rebbe to be an Odom Godol.

    We are not allowed to bend the rules and requirements of the Torah and of Chazal (davening in the appropriate time, not eating before davening) in order to fufill what we consider to be a more “important” objective (e.g., eating in order to supposedly daven with more kavana – especially since nowadays most people don’t have such great kavana anyway).

    “I had a Chabad friend who would say Sh’ma, eat breakfast, learn Chassidus from 8-10 am, then daven. I never understood that. In my opinion, if you feel that learning 2 hours is necessary preparation, then wake up 2 hours earlier and daven at 8.”

    Not a bad suggestion. If Chazal said that davening before zman tefilla is mandatory, one is not allowed to say, “Well, I feel that learning Tanya is more important to me personally than davening at the correct time.” Halacha is not determined by how someone “feels,” but by what Chazal declared to be mandatory.

    “Many great Chassidishe Rebbes and Chassidim of old davened after zman tefillah because of their intense hachanos for tefillah.”

    “Great” people are those who follow halacha, not those who recite their morning prayers in the afternoon.

    #1088504

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    There were indeed great people who didn’t keep zmanin for tefillah. There is actually a halachic explanation for it, albeit not one that the litvaks would go for.

    But to say that certain great tzaddikim weren’t great is small minded, because they had a cheshbon, even if we don’t understand/agree.

    As R’ Moshe famously said about one tzaddik, “He deserves petch, but there’s nobody in this generation wortht of giving it to him”.

    #1088505

    Yosi7
    Member

    mil5- Yes, Rav Shach could speak against another Rav…you can’t. And, no offence, you (and all of us) are less than nothing compared to Gedolim such as the Satmar Rav who davened after Zman Teffila (He knew the Halacha). Not saying certain Hanhagos of gedolim are for the masses to follow but to say that these Gedolei Olam weren’t “great” takes tremendous Chutzpah.

    #1088506

    HaKatan
    Participant

    Yosi7:

    Your comparison of Rabbi Schneerson to the Satmar Rav is a non-starter.

    Rav Schach and others said what they did about Rabbi Schneerson and/or his movement/faith but none said anything negative about the Satmar Rav (yes, including any potential and minor differences in the matter of Zionism). On the contrary, the Brisker Rav, who was quite medakdek in mitzvos, to say the least, was mechabed the Satmar Rav.

    So it was Rav Schach along with other gedolim speaking about Rabbi Schneerson, not milk5.

    #1088507

    Excellence
    Participant

    I never spit during Aleinu. It’s a disgusting thing to do.

    As for using present tense for the Rebbe … There are numerous stories of the Rebbe helping his people even decades after his petira, so yes, very much present tense. We are very lucky he watches over us in our time of need.

    If one has never had a “Rebbe experience” you will not understand.

    #1088508

    Yosi7
    Member

    Hakatan- I wasn’t comparing the two. I was saying that Rav Shach was big enough to speak against the Lubavitcher Rebbe while Mik5 is not. According to your logic am I allowed to say the Rambam was kalei hadaas and all he had were Svaras of little kids. Its not me saying it…its the Raavad. The point is, yes the Raavad and Rav Shach could say what they said but that does not necessarily allow me to say and repeat it.

    #1088509

    ABS-SA
    Participant

    Excellence. What of the Ribono Shel Olam? Maybe its H’ who watches over us? Anyway, H’ based as opposed to Rebbe based would be the normative Jewish position.

    BTW, what you call a “Rebbe” experience, a Christian would call a JC experience. Just saying. The common denominator is that you really have to believe while discounting any rational explanation. That BTW is why us non-believers just don’t get it!

    #1088510

    mik5
    Participant

    It looks like someone is confusing the Lubavitcher Rebbe with G-d.

    #1088511

    mik5
    Participant

    How would one know that the Rebbe has “helped” or “watched over him” after his (the Rebbe’s) petirah? How are you privy to such information?

    #1088512

    mik5
    Participant
    #1088513

    mik5
    Participant

    As far as davening after zman tefilla is concerned, it depends on what one means by that.

    Until chatzos it’s OK b’dieved (if one couldn’t daven earlier, or forgot to).

    Past chatzos (or past half an hour past chatzos) it is NOT ok to recite the morning prayers; rather, one needs to daven Mincha twice, if he couldn’t recite the morning prayers at the proper time.

    I’m sorry, but just because someone is a chassidic rebbe, does not mean that he can make up his own religion. (I am not writing this in reference to any particular rebbe; I am just saying that we have a Shulchan Aruch, and we have a mesora, and no one is entitled to invent his own religion simply because he is of chassidic stock or wears white stockings on Shabbos, etc.)

    #1088515

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/chabad-minhagim#post-573643

    Argue with the approach to halachah. Don’t be so dismissive of some great people whose approach was not one we follow, and bear in mind that they did have halachic justification.

    #1088516

    Matan1
    Participant

    Excellence, what you said is borderline kefira

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