June 2, 2010 9:40 pm at 9:40 pm #591725bptParticipant
In my parents generation, friends of the parents (and in some cases, even friends of the grandparents) would be invited and would arrive for the kabbolas ponim and stay trhu bentching. Depending on who you are, this would account for 10-20 couples, and would include neighbors, bungalow friends, co-workers, shul people.
I am being told that in this day and age, this is unheard of. Not only that, but despite getting an invitation in the mail (some with return cards, some “return cards we do not send”) no one even expects you to show your face for more than 15-30 minutes.
So far, I have only made Bar Mitzvahs. But when I did, my friends came more or less on time and stayed more or less till the end, as did I for their simchas. Am I (and my core group) the exception, or is this becoming the new rule out there? I only know the BP / Willy market, so I’d be very interested to hear whats going on elsewhere.
In a nutshell;
a) How many friends do you invite and how many come and stay for the whole affair? and
b) How many non-family simcha do you attend from start to finish in a year?June 2, 2010 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #685858smartcookieMember
You invite only friends that you really want should be there from beginning to end. If you would LIKE to sit by their simcha all night, then they want to sit by your simcha all night.
Other friends just come and say mazel tov and hang around a little.
I attend MANY non-family simchas a year(neighbors, work related, husbands friends, old aquaintances), but only a few minutes each.
The only meals I sit down to is immediate family or if my aunt marries off.June 3, 2010 12:46 am at 12:46 am #685859
I would never attend ANY simcha to which I am invited, for a few minutes and then leave.If someone thinks enough of me to invite me to stay for a meal, I think enough of them to want to be mesameach with them.
What I really detest (and forgive me in advance if any of you is guilty of issuing this type of invitation, but I think it is really rude), is getting invited to a shmorg and then to the “simchas chosson v’kallah,” which is specified for around 10 PM on a 5 or 6PM kabbolas panim. Does anyone really think it is polite to invite someone to get dressed for a simcha, come all the way down for the K”P and chuppah, then GO HOME (not invited to dinner, obviously) and RETURN HOURS LATER to dance the second round of dancing??????????? If you want to argue that the families cannot necessarily afford to include everyone, then make a SMALLER wedding of people you really want there, or do without some of the expensive trappings (a one man band can be fine, fake flowers can be fine to rent for tzedaka (I prefer to do that), and make a simpler menu and cake and fruit instead of a shmorg. But PLEASE don’t make some of your guests feel like they are on the “B” list. And also, if the baal simcha thought enough of you to invite you to the whole thing a) send back the reply card ASAP and b) show up if you said you were coming (unless there is a great emergency, and you should call the hosts as soon as you can to tell them). I cannot tell you how many seating cards I have seen left on the table that clearly were not even looked at, much less taken by the proper guest. The host still has to pay for you. It feels like gneivas daas to me to say you are coming and then be a no-show.
OK, done with my rant. For now.June 3, 2010 1:04 am at 1:04 am #685860lesschumrasParticipant
Ive been to simchas where nobody in the chassons/kallas family can tell time. The chuppa starts late, runs long and then the pictures take well over an hour. By the time the couple finally comes in, it could be close to 9:30 or 10 and a good percentage of the guests are looking at their watches , especially if the next day is a work day. If you want peaple to stay to the end, the balle simcha have to be thoughtful of their guestsJune 3, 2010 1:09 am at 1:09 am #685861mosheroseMember
How can anyone leave a chasana? What about the mitzvah of simchas chasan v’kallah?
Yes, if someones wife is about to have a baby or something like that he can leave, I’m not unreasonable. But to just leave without a real good reason?June 3, 2010 2:33 am at 2:33 am #685862hereorthereMember
At one time I was working two jobs and dead tired all the time.
My supervisor wanted me to come for his wedding.
If I did not come at all, he would have been insulted and made things harder for me at work.
If I stayed the entire time, I would have either missed the next day at work, or been so dead on my feet I would have done nothing but made mistakes and get sent home after a bad argument and possibly even lost my job.
He accepted that I was going to come for a just few minutes, say Mazal Tov, and leave.
It does not have to be about someone in the hospital for it to be a valid reason.
Also in general I do not like the extra loud music that causes hearing loss with enough exposure (much less then most people probably think is needed, to cause hearing loss.).June 3, 2010 2:41 am at 2:41 am #685863squeakParticipant
Oomis, clearly you have never been invited to a chasuna in Europe. The only difference between that and what you described is a piece of chicken 🙂June 3, 2010 3:30 am at 3:30 am #685864kapustaParticipant
oomis, so interesting that you say that. On the contrary I would think that they have to draw the line at some point, and they wanted me there enough to be invited rather than not invited. I dont think I would go and come back, though. Either choose the Chuppah, or the dancing depending on my schedule/when it would be appreciated more.June 3, 2010 5:18 am at 5:18 am #685865chesednameParticipant
don’t you pay only if a main course was served? unless there is a minimum and the baal simcha invited exactly that amount.
on a side note, i understand ppl want to cut back and save the money, my issue is getting dressed up, if i could go in work clothing (colored shirt, dress pants, hat, jacket, no tie) i would go more often and wish a mazel tov, but for me to go home, change and go back out, lack of interest.June 3, 2010 6:03 am at 6:03 am #685866amichaiParticipant
we live in eretz yisroel. usually people will stay for family simchas. if you recieve an invite in the mail telling you when the wedding is, you are invited to sit and eat. as of late, people have written in the card ,the times of the chuppa, and simchas, chosson and kalla. that means you go to either or. you don’t need to go to both. if you can’t make it because of the travelling, don’t go. people are trying to cut down on expenses. you don’t need the chicken. it’s not an insult. some people from certain communities are invited to two simchos a nite. we aren’t speaking about pple. that only go to weddings once in a while. we cannot possibly go and sit each day. these pple go to say mazel tov and leave and it’s hard enough with that. if you are an out of town friend, more than an hr. drive away, usually pple will invite you for the meal. b’smachot.June 3, 2010 6:53 am at 6:53 am #685867One of the chevraParticipant
OOMIS 1105 WROTE: “Does anyone really think it is polite to invite someone to get dressed for a simcha, come all the way down for the K”P and chuppah, then GO HOME (not invited to dinner, obviously) and RETURN HOURS LATER to dance the second round of dancing???????????”
I’m sorry to say, you TOTALY missed the point! The reason people write the KB time and then the “simchas choson v’kala time” (for those they’re not able to invite for the whole affair) is to make it EASIER for the person invited. It means that he has the option to choose between attending the KP and chupah or to come later for the simchas CK, dancing etc. it was not meant to make them come early and then go home and then come back again, (unless they want to).
Another point: The main problem in this whole issue seems to be one of selfishness and getting all offended about “why was I not invited for the meal” etc.
When people are really friends and thier intentions are truly for the purpose of sharing in someones simcha they understand that the people making the wedding can’t invite everyone for the meal but still feel that they would like to have you share thier simcha with them, so they invite you for the chuppa or the dancing whichever is MORE CONVENIENT FOR YOU, and hopefully they too will understand that if for whatever reason it is that you are only able to stay for a short time, they WILL NOT BE OFFENDED and will appreciate that you made the effort to come and take part in thier simcha.
I think we should cut out all the childish selfish games of “He didn’t invite me I’m not inviting him, he didnt come to mine I’m not going to his” etc. and just try to understand each others situations and act accordingly.
We should all have only simchas always!June 3, 2010 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #685868blubluhParticipant
I’ve been to a few chassanas that gave some thought to this issue and came up with what I consider a simple and clever solution. The invitations let guests decide which part of the simcha they would attend and set things up accordingly.
The choice was to participate from the beginning (the “shmorg”) through the chuppah or from the chuppah through the dinner.
That not only gave the guests an honorable way to avoid exhaustion (not to mention baby-sitting fees), but also to limit the cost of the affair to some extent.June 3, 2010 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #685870bptParticipant
Oomis – I agree with Chesed and Chevrah; the KP and SCvK times are noted so you, as the friend or neighbor (not “B” list, per se, just not best friend / closest neighbor status) will know how to plan your arrival to an affair where you are only expected to pop in for a few minutes.
And yes, that means going thru the trouble of getting dressed / travelling for what ammounts to 15-30 of time on the dance floor.
And yes, I (like 99% of the people in the CR) get dozens of those kind of invitations. So I either go or don’t go.
But what I was getting at is, there seems to be a prevailing attitude (at least in my neighborhood) that there are NO instances where there is the expectaion to attend a simcha from start to finish, unless you’re close family.
What happened to friends? OK, maybe not 50-60 friends; but I think 5-10 (both me attending theirs and them attending mine )is reasonable.
And Blubluh – beielve it or not, I actualy once got an invitation that had a “checklist” of which part of the simcha we planned on coming for. Hopefully it will catch on, so its less of a stigmaJune 3, 2010 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #685871
The invitation should not be issued in such a way, IMO, regardless of OOTC’s lengthy explanation (thank you for it, though). And the person who thus invited me, was a longtime close (I thought) friend, whom I had seen and helped through a very bad time. I stand by my original impression.June 3, 2010 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #685872chesednameParticipant
i think you’re more hurt at not being invited to the whole wedding, than the 2 times.
you can always go to kabllas ponim OR dancing.
either way give your “friend”, that did remember you, the benefit of the doubt, maybe she can’t afford to invite you to the meal (that’s when ppl have to pay)June 4, 2010 12:18 am at 12:18 am #685873
My former friend COULD afford to invite – she made the wedding at a country club. You seem to fail to see the point that it was an unclassy way to invite someone to a simcha. Either invite or don’t, but please don’t think there is something fundamentally justifiable with issuing this type of invitation. It is something that I have been seeing in very recent years, and I do not like it and would never do that to someone. I’ve been invited to the KP and chuppah only before, and that was fine. I understood that money is tight for many. It is for me too, but I looked for ways to lower my costs, so I could be mesameach with all the people who mean a lot to me. whatever, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Thank you for the point that you tried to make.
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