- This topic has 31 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 5 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Question:
Why do Chassidim always vote for liberals (democrats)?
For example, Hillary Clinton won New Square by a 1400 to 12 margin. (american Daily)
I ask because a certain Chossid (who will remain nameless, but will be ignored if she starts to flame) has been pushing conservative values.
Now, I am all for conservative values (I am one myself, I think), but I see that Chassidim are not, in general.
So why is that, that we see Chassidim are true blue liberals?
Chassidim need more social services on average, so need to vote for democrats. New Square uses a LOT of social services.
In Israel, the religious parties are the biggest supporters of that country’s generous welfare state. That should be no surprise because the ideal state described in the Torah is a generous welfare state.
SJS is right. When you utilize the social programs that are available, you need to ensure that liberal politicos will keep those programs in place for you, and financially solvent at that.
The basis of this thread and the assumptions of the OP are factually incorrect.
Chassidim want the funds from the govt.
Let’s not make it a general statement because myself and many more chassidim I know, vote republican.
I have three reasons that Chassidim vote for liberals
1. Gelt
2. Money
3. Mula
GAW, wasn’t there a pardon agreement with Clinton? Or was that Bill? I honestly forget.
as YWN posted on the main thread very astutely “jews care about social service issues more than social issues”
There was a deal when Bill was finishing up as president. Hillary was running for Senator at the time. There were 4 people from New Square who were convicted of stealing $40 million from the government in various different types of fraud. The deal was that if New Square supported her, these 4 people would get pardoned by Bill before he left office.
Gavra – if you’re against the money angle, you oppose Agudah know-towing to anti-moral candidates/politicians?
This entire thread in shtus. Look at the real data. Specifically the NYC Board of Election results for the districts in Williamsburgh and Borough Park, are Republican leaning districts. In fact the most Republican in the entire city, with the possible exception of some parts of Staten Island (the smallest borough.)
Facts, people, facts.
gavra_at_work
Since when does New Square represent all chasidim?
Your OP doesn’t need an answer.
The NS Hillary vote was the mitzvah rabba of pidyum shvuyim, plain and simple. Yes there was an off the record deal with Bill and Hillary for a pardon. And well worth it, considering Slick Willie gave the pardon — something he would never otherwise have done.
It was an anomaly to normal voting patterns.
gaw: I’m not SW.
Willi, BP, and KJ have the largest concentration of Chasidim in the U.S.
The only time the mitzvah of PS was at issue, was NS 2000. Any other time crime considerations is at issue they vote for Republican for strong anti-crime positions Republicans take.
I’ve seen them on the NYTimes site after elections. I’d have to research where to get the results now, since the Times took them down apparently.
gaw
you totally don’t get the point here. You have a question on a New Square vote, which doesn’t have any connection to chassidim in general.
By chassidim every chassidus or community decides on their own for whom to vote.
In BP it turns out that republican votes are very high.
I’ve seen in the past that you have misconceptions on chassidim.
GAW, its a lot easier to get a statistic on New Square because they are their own village. Its harder to get Williamsburg statistics because there are many non-chassidim living there and the stats get muddled.
I’m sure somewhere there are KJ votes.
And Jews traditionally vote democrat, that isn’t a Chassidish thing. But communities that rely on social services are more reliant on democrats and less reliant on thinking about the candidates.
“Dr. Hall: Are you claiming the Torah promotes state based liberalism? Please back that up with sources as well. I am aware that there is Ma’aser Ani, but that was to be given on an individual basis by individuals, not by the state. “
Yes. In tractate Shekalim, communal authorities are given the responsibility of levying taxes on the community for education, public works, and support of the poor. Rabbi Moshe Tendler has proven that that support includes universal health care.
And there are many other examples where the Torah provides for something other than a laissez-faire state. The King can take your property without your consent. (That is frowned upon, as the example of Naboth’s vinyard shows, but the halachah is that the King does have that power.) Beit din can declare your property ownerless and give it to someone else — without any compensation to you. If people are traversing your property to get from point A to point B, you can’t stop them. If you live in Jerusalem, and someone knocks on your door during one of the pilgrimage festivals, that person sleeps in your home whether you like it or not. There is no permanent sale of land in Eretz Yisrael outside of cities. During the shimittah year, if people want to pick fruit from your orchard, you can’t stop them. Ditto if they want to collect leket, peah, or shich’chah. Overcharging your customers is asur, as is undercharging. Trying to take away someone else’s business is also asur; the Torah values the protection of existing businesses over the supposed virtues of competition.
This is NOT socialism; there remains a limited right to private property. But that right is not a fundamental one; it is an indirect right that stems from the fact that the Torah forbids me from taking something that isn’t mine. But as I pointed out, the Torah does not forbid a King or a Beit Din from taking your property! The founding fathers of the United States would have been horrified. The ideal Torah state would be better described as a welfare wtate with an intrusive government. There is a reason why the gemara in Yevamot singles out leket, peah, shich’chah and maaser oni as the commandments that must be taught to prospective converts. (I would have thought it would be Shabat, kashrut, and taharat hamishpachah.) Non-Jews do understand the “right” to property. But we Jews understand that in truth everything belongs to our creator who has essentially lent it to us. Nothing is really ours. And if we are called to share it with others, well….
I’ve been appalled at the number of frum-looking Jews who have adopted an approach to public policy that is more Ayn Rand than Moshe Rabbeinu. As these examples show, the Torah doesn’t emulate Trotsky — but it certainly is far from Rand’s hedonistic self-centered ideal.
Everything has limits, including the government.
The amount the king could take in normal circumstances is 1/10.
It is true that historically Jews have voted democratic, mainly because of social issues. Remember, secular Jews were on the forefront of civil rights. But nowadays, the trend has shifted among frum Jews. I am involved in local politics and can tell you that many more Orthodox Jews are now registering as Republicans. Possibly this is attributable to the Republican family values agenda compared to the Democratic agenda that favors abortion and gay rights. Additionally, Republicans have historically been much better for Israel.
However, I agree that discreet groups that rely heavily on government services, be they at the school district level or higher, will vote for the politicians who will give them what they need.
“does not forbid a King or a Beit Din from taking your property”
This was only to be used in extremely rare circumstances.
Look how Ahab was punished for abusing this power.
The King could execute anyone for for Mored B’Malchus, which included any act of disrespect or rebellion.
Charliehall, I am sure you would not want to see this power being used routinely.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.