Chassidim vs. Beis Yaakov

What Chassidim send their daughters to is a Bais Yaakov, it’s just not part of the Bais Yaakov organization. It runs using the system popularized by Reb. Sara Schenirer ZT”L therefore it’s a Bais Yaakov.

Their schools speak to their students in Yiddish while bais Yaakovs teach in English

Yseribus: What “Bais Yaakov organization” do you speak of?

A large percentage of Rebbetzins in America within the Chassidishe community who are of American birth or arrived in America in their youth attended Bais Yaakov. The Chassidishe communities, as they grew, created their own girls schools just as they created their own yeshivos. There were Chassidishe Rebbes who attended Yeshivas Rabbenu Yitzchok Elchonon. The preferences to be mechanech one’s children within their own communities is legendary, and is not newsworthy. Prior to much of the growth we see today, Chassidishe families patronized the Litvishe yeshivos, and girls attended the frum schools that existed at that time. I can provide many examples.

Redleg: The Belzer Rebbe gave Sarah Schenirer a brocha to be successful in starting the Beis Yaakov schools before she began her efforts. She was a Belzer chosid and went to him for permission to begin her innovation.

Sarah Schenirer z”l was a Belzer. Her brother
went to Belz to ask for her and was given
permission and a brocha. It was the
Gerrer Rebbe z”l that helped her make it
happen and fully supported her in her efforts
But without Sarah Schenirer nothing would
have happened. So you are both correct

“No, I know that Chassidic girls go to school. Just why isn’t everyone all mixed in one BY?”
The same reason boys don’t all go to the same mixed yeshivas.

“Also what do you mean by their “BY”.”
It’s come to be a general term.

Redleg
Too much propaganda?
putting aside Hungary or Galicia almost all supported the movement
matter of fact it was so obvious that most weren’t even sure what the Innovation was

Germany and Yavne already had existing before this

Joseph:
It’s not like they’re learning gemara. Nobody ever said it’s assur to tell a woman how to keep kosher, Shabbos, etc.

I personally also don’t really see how it was such a big chiddush to have girls going to Jewish girls’ schools instead of public schools or homeschooling (presumably the alternative). The wikipedia on it makes it sounds like, at the time, girls had gotten so stupid they didn’t even know how to keep shabbos and therefore they had to start it as an emergency. I don’t buy that.

Neville, IITFT:

There is a dispute in the Mishna Sotah 20a whether one is even allowed to teach Torah to women at all. The argument against the teaching of Torah to women states that if one does so, it is like teaching them Tiflus. Rashi comments that Tiflus means lechery, meaning the study of Torah will lead women to immorality. Rashi then cites the famous story of Bruriah, one of the greatest female scholars in Jewish history to prove his point. One day, Bruriah ridiculed the Gemara (in Kidushin 80b) which states that that women are lightheaded. Rabbi Meir, her husband, ordered his student to test Bruriah’s strength and try to seduce his wife. Bruriah caved in and when she realized what she had done, she hung herself.

Thus Rashi’s argument is that women’s minds are not meant for serious Torah learning. The Rambam agrees with Rashi’s take. Rambam also adds that when the chachamim had said, “He who teaches his daughter Torah, is as if he taught his daughter tiflus,”only applies to the oral law. The Rambam says that a man should not teach his daughters written law but if he does, it is not considered tiflus. The Shulchan Aruch follows this approach of Rambam.

The conclusion is that there are four areas within this law, as per Shulchan Aruch:

1. Women may not learn the Oral Torah

2. Women may learn the simple meaning of the Written Torah

3. Women may not learn the Written Torah in depth

4. Women must learn the laws that apply to them

Note that Rashi, Ramban, etc. are part of Torah Shebalpeh.

Neville, I was demonstrating the incorrectness of your comment that it isn’t “a big chiddush to have girls going to Jewish girls’ schools instead of… homeschooling”. In fact, until the Beis Yaakov movement, it has been the Jewish tradition for thousands of years for mothers to homeschool their daughters in the needed (and permitted) subjects.

Different standards.
Different language (many chassidim speak only yiddish)
Different minhagim

I know in Israel a school needs to meet a certain standard to be in on the “BY” club.
There are schools outside the system with BY standards.
But there are no schools within the BY system that don’t meet the criteria.

Sending a child to a BY school is basically knowing that they meet those standards.

You mean why would a school call itself a Bais Yaakov instead of just a “Jewish girls school?” Same reason a place would call itself a yeshiva or mesivta instead of a “Hebrew Day School.” The titles signal the type of institution.

So, in other words, it’s just branding?

The Wolf

So, in other words, it’s just branding?

Basically.

Joseph,
observe how the Commentaries over the centuries interpreted

1) Women are prohibited from learning she’lo lishma
2) females ought not to learn pilpul or too much lomdus
3) Females are not to learn in an organized institutional setting

The Saba Kadisha always contended that his rebbe was his mother and her main rebbe in turn was ..her mother

I cannot imagine ANY parent, Litvish or Chasidish, enrolling their daughter in a yeshiva for girls by ANY name without preforming their own due diligence, talking to friends with children attending the school, checking any online reviews or ratings and even sitting in on a few classes if the rules allow. The name may be a good starting point (aka a Beis Yaakov versus a Day School) based on the hashkafah of the family, but given that today there may be choices for parents in larger metro areas, not all Beis Yaakovs offer the same degree of quality chinuch as others. Fortunately, not even the most traditional BY today literally subscribe to Yosef’s predictable mycogonistic spin on halacha discouraging a robust torah education for frum girls.

The historical facts are that the Belzer Rebbe zy”a have her a brocha and go ahead. The Gerrer Rebbe zy”a not only gave her a brocha but took an active part in it all. The first Menahel in Warsaw was a Gerrer chusid that was put there by the Gerrer Rebbe
The Hungarian Rebbes were against it but the Gerrer Rebbe pushed it ahead. It is known that the Gerrer Rebbe told the Munkatcher that future generations will prove who was right

Azoiy: I see a much higher level of tznius and ehrlichkeit today among girls and women in Hungarian kehilos than from virtually any other frum demographic.

Partially true. BY girls have nothing to be ashamed of BH al pi rov. In the end the Hungarian kehillos realized that they have no choice but to copy the BY model

What hasn’t been mentioned is that the collapse of the traditional model that allowed for the large scale ignorance of Jewish girls in yiddiskeit outside of kashrus and basic Shabbos laws led to the founding of Bais Yaakov. . With the post WW1 collapse of the Russian and Austro-Hungarian Empires , Jews were no longer confined to the shtetl and isolated from the outside civilization. More and more women were being exposed to outside influences. Without a firm background in, and knowledge of their religion, assimilation rates among women were alarming. BTW, despite romanticized views of the alte heim, there was a post WW1 migration out of the shtetl that was contributing to an overall increase in assimilation.