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I can’t believe what I read in the New York Post the other day. There’s a chassidush school in Brooklyn that is banning thick black glasses? Can someone please explain to me why they are banning thick black glasses? I understand the dress code of black and white, velvet yarmulke…, but to tell these kids they can’t wear thick black glasses? What does that accomplish? Did Hashem say people can’t wear thick black glasses? What’s going to happen when these glasses are out of style, will they be allowed to wear it? Can I please get some real answers here
kfb: You say that you understand the dress code of black and white, velvet yarmulke…
I’m sure you don’t think that Hashem said people must wear black and white velvet yarmulke…, so why do you think Hashem has to say people shouldn’t wear thick black glasses in order for there to be a reason people shouldn’t wear them?
I didn’t read this article, but if what you are saying is true, I think the reason is obvious. The more a person – especially a man- is invested in something like fashion, the less he is invested in ruchniyus. The aim of this chassidishe school is to raise Jews completely invested in ruchniyus. Ergo, they ban stylish things, in order that their children don’t get attached to them.
I can’t believe you read the NY Prust.
That is a lot more shocking.
Derech HaMelech:
Following your logic, the more a menahel or rebbe is interested in the externals of his talmidim, the less he will be able to concentrate on the ruchniyus. There is nothing wrong with a dress code in a yeshiva, but all of these gashmiyus issues that are truly trivial have become priority over the mission of transmitting the values of Ahavas Hashem and Yiras Hashem to the younger generation. We’re in trouble until the nonsense stops.
Their school, their dress code. I have no issues. Perhaps the glasses are “in” and they want to discourage children concentrating on fashion.
If a non-Jewish newssource says something outrageous about us, be skeptical. It could be they are genuinely evil (quite likely if run by non-Orthodox Jews), or could be they are dumb.
Are they talking about prescription glasses? That would banning kids based on a physical handicap which will get the school in very big trouble with just about everyone.
Are they objecting to a type of frame (black frames are quite uncontroversial)?
Are they objecting to some style involving outrageous frames and non-prescription (i.e. clear) lens worn as a fashion statement – which would sound like something that might get banned.
Right, but most insurance companies only let you get so many prescription eye glasses frames, and they are expensive to just replace right away.
It sounds like they want to ban a style known as being worldly.
Hasidish groups have every right to do so, as they wish to be insular, apart from the world and general society.
Like someone said, glasses are expensive. Once you start buying for a kid the frames that are the style now (black plastic is the style now), then as soon as the style changes (could be a week, a month or a year), then you have to go out and buy a new pair to fit the fashion again. Not a small outlay. If the kid has to wear glasses, get a regular looking pair and update it to something similar only if the prescription changes.
From what little I know, the choice of these frames is not random. It is a stylish style being sought after these days. So, the school has a right and obligation to do it’s part to discourage that pursuit.
Nechomah: Not necessarily, I have been wearing the same frames for three years now, and only because my mom keeps on harassing me, I will probably give in and get new glasses. My personal opinion is that if you insist on being in style, then you need to find a way to do it without breaking the bank, such as getting your designer clothes from thrift stores (provided they are in good condition), or get everything on sale. The thing with glasses is that it usually has to do with eye insurance, so assuming everyone who wears glasses has vision covered in their insurance plan, I don’t see what the point of the rule is. And you can get this style for cheaper than hundreds of dollars.
Following your logic, the more a menahel or rebbe is interested in the externals of his talmidim, the less he will be able to concentrate on the ruchniyus. There is nothing wrong with a dress code in a yeshiva, but all of these gashmiyus issues that are truly trivial have become priority over the mission of transmitting the values of Ahavas Hashem and Yiras Hashem to the younger generation. We’re in trouble until the nonsense stops.
I think you have it backwards. Sublimating the externals goes hand in hand with enhancing ruchniyus. There is no room for Ahavas Hashem and Yiras Hashem in someone who is busy scouting stores for the latest fashion. That is called Ahavas haGashmiyus and Yiras ha”what will my neighbor think if s/he sees me in THAT”.
If you don’t believe that, I urge you to take a look at Boro Park today. B”H that is only the worst example and there are many who escaped that test. But if that doesn’t depress you, I don’t know what will.
Every single thing in the world is part of our avoddah whether to enhance us or as a nisayon against us. Glasses are no exception.
What if someone decided that contacts were stylish and banned those
ZD- That would be beyond stupid, because how can you enforce that?
What if someone decided that contacts were stylish and banned those
It already happened. This is from a YNet article titled “Rabbi, how do you like my glasses?”.
In a special sermon to the young yeshiva students of the Hasidic dynasty, considered one of the biggest in the haredi sector, Rabbi Israel Hager, the successor of the Vizhnitz Hasidism’s founder, discussed the dangers inherent in modernizations on the secular street and urged the students not to wear metal glasses and contact lenses.
The rabbi made the remarks as part of the Shovevim period – an acronym for the Jewish weekly Torah portions of “Shemot”, “Va’era”, “Bo”, B’Shallach”, “Yitro” and “Mishpatim”. During this period, it is customary to be more careful not to violate any of the sex-related transgressions commanded in the Torah and study the laws relating to such transgressions.
Rabbi Hager said in his sermon that the students must “beware of the dangers hiding on the street.” He added that, “a student who wishes to delve into Torah studies and observe mitzvot must detach himself from all nonsense and not let them infiltrate.”
The rabbi called on students wearing modern metal glasses to remove them and move to anti-modern plastic glasses. Rabbi Hager also spoke out against yeshiva students wearing contact lenses.
“Every single thing in the world is part of our avoddah whether to enhance us or as a nisayon against us. Glasses are no exception.”
Wow, in such a world there is no d’var reshus (permissible item). All is either mandatory or forbidden.
This makes the Gemora in Sukkah and Pasuk about the obligation to say Shema when you are going on a “permissible journey” hard to understand…
Permissible things can also enhance or detract…
“If the kid has to wear glasses, get a regular looking pair and update it to something similar only if the prescription changes.”
The question is, what is a regular pair of glasses? That doesn’t exist, because style and fashion are extremely fluid and ever-changing. These black plastic glasses became popular in the past two years or so as “nerd glasses” because they were considered extremely nerdy up to only a couple years ago. Back then, those glasses were what kids were encouraged to wear- smaller metal glasses were a lot more in. Now the fashion is flipped on its head, and the “nerd” glasses they’re making these kids buy may easily end up “the next big thing.” Not probable, but to be honest, did you ever REALLY think nerd glasses were going to come back in? 🙂
I still have my glasses from eighth grade (I’m in eleventh). They’re not nerdy or anything, in fact I think they look kind of cute (the only nerd factor is that I wear glasses at all as opposed to contacts), but they’re definitely not cool “nerd glasses” because I have no interest in buying myself (because my parents sure won’t pay for them) the new style of glasses every time it comes out. Honestly, the only way to truly avoid fashion is to change your glasses (clothes, whatever) all the time.
Derech Hamelech:
I am mochel you for the weird misreading of my comment. You are correct that the scouting for the latest fashions is inconsistent with Ahavas Hashem and Yiras Hashem. I favor the not following of latest styles. That was not my focus. I was directing my remarks to the preoccupation of a yeshiva with issues that are of comparatively little importance. We have managed to raise a younger generation that have not been inculcated with the values that promote Torah and Mitzvos. Just the picture perfect family and personal appearance. Peruse the many photographs in our frum media (digital and print) of every Rav, Dayan, Rebbe, Rosh Yeshiva, etc. doing various activities, be it mitzvos, social, etc. In essence, these photos are not a problem. We are guided to see our leaders and derive Yiras Hashem from the experience. But we have gotten stuck in photography. The proliferation of these magazines and sections in the newspapers has not made a dent on the lack of Yiras Shomayim that would be required to abstain from the decadence of the internet, the streets, etc. Our incidence of white collar crime and scandals has not waned a bit. I suggest that the focus on the externals has come at great cost, where the true values that need to be imparted and emphasized are in last place.
I do not advocate being stylish. That is equally silly. But to ignore the unpopularity of Yiras Hashem while attending to specifics of manner of dress is not the mission of yeshivos.
IMHO, dress that is dignified and modest is what Jews ought to wear. I think looking “professional” in this day and age is a kiddush HaShem; a groomed beard, suit and tie for men, and a sheitel, skirt suit, etc. for women is clothing that clearly makes us appear dignified in the world.
I wish our tefilla be tzibbur were still dignified. The image of rabbi and chazzan in Geneva gowns, with a well-coordinated choir singing Lewandowski and Sulzer, and a polished, meaningful sermon, are sublime. I’ve only experienced that in a handful of places: Shearith Israel, Breuer’s, and at Princes’ Road in Liverpool. I wish Minhag Anglia had made its way to America.
I do not advocate being stylish. That is equally silly. But to ignore the unpopularity of Yiras Hashem while attending to specifics of manner of dress is not the mission of yeshivos.
So you are saying, because the NYP didn’t have an article about the asei tov the yeshivah is doing to encourage Yiras Shomayim, they must be solely focused on the sur meyra.
The truth is that you don’t know. Fashion in Boro Park has reached a point that is beyond outrageous. Here is a Yeshivah that clearly can see this as an issue and are taking steps that will hopefully help their children in this issue. For all we know, the Yeshivah also incorporated mandatory lessons in a sefer about Yiras Hashem as part of their efforts. But that doesn’t make news in NYP.
Banning stylish clothes has its place (provided its not too little too late), but among the goyim it is also juicy news.
Whats funny about this whole discussion is I never even noticed the difference in styles of frames
Granted I dont wear them , But I never really paid attention to the difference between Plastic and Metal frames. You can notice the style of Sunglasses, so thats a little different.
The Torah does not demand that we be like the ministering angels and lose all individuality in the service of Hashem.
Rules such as this ban as explained by Derech HaMelech serve to shoehorn children in this direction.
I didn’t know that the ministering angels don’t have a sense of individuality. Although if they don’t, I would have thought it would be because of their unimaginable self-negation to Hashem.
I do think that conformity is a great way to raise like-minded children. Being a poresh min haTzibbur is not a good thing.
I don’t think that a person loses his individuality by conforming to a dress code. I think this can be substantiated by a quick glance at 5 charedi people.
I guess the administration and parents of that school would disagree with your position.
The school may be banning these glasses for a completely different reason. I personally do not like this style.
i go to a very yeshivish school where they also ban alot of stupid things eg: wearing your jumper around your waist, white sneakers etc. they also cross out every time it says the words TV or internet or email. this is what we remember because so much stress has been put on it. i don’t even remember what the article was about i just remember seeing the word television changed to magazine.
if they wouldn’t put so much stress on these glasses, it would pass but because they are noticing it, boys will especially get them.
i have thick black glasses and i got them 2 1/2 years ago coz i liked them. absolutely nothing got to do with fashion. why do you think these boys are into fashion? maybe it’s all they could find within their budget? you have to be dan l’kaf z’chus.
Gamanit posted:
ZD- That would be beyond stupid, because how can you enforce that?
1. Clearly being stupid is not something that bothers them, because they’ve already made this rule.
2. The way to enforce it would be obvious. They will take a close look at people’s eyes, possibly with a magnifying glass. Of course, news of this will soon reach the outside world, and the following conversation will ensue:
YWN poster: Did you hear that Bnos Zichron Gadlus Hatorah is checking students’ eyes for contact lenses? That’s crazy! It’s invasive and intrusive and serves no purpose!
Other YWN poster: Who are you to say what serves a purpose? They obviously feel that for their derech, it’s important not to wear contact lenses. And they wouldn’t be checking unless it was actually likely to help. If students are bothered by the checking – it’s their own fault because if there weren’t people wearing contact lenses the school wouldn’t have to check.
It was mentioned in a speech, not actually listed as a rule in the rule book. There’s a difference. Not that I think anyone should speak against it either…
It is good to know that the wrong style of glasses is the biggest problem that a community is facing.
good point zachkessin
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