Chaveirim, Yidden, and Lomdei Toirah, be malveh me your Oznayim
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- This topic has 28 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 11 months, 1 week ago by n0mesorah.
June 23, 2022 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #2099698
K. K. Lechoirah here’s the matziv. I recently made a meshaneh makom to a new yeshiva. Gevaldige place. Mamash moiredik. There’s just one problem. It punkt happens that some of the oilam, the chevra, they shtam from places that are a bisseleh modernish.
Be’etzem, this is not an issue bechlall, except that it’s a shtickel hard for these guys to hock in learning kol kach, because they’re not gantz bakant in the “yeshivishe shprach”, the lingo used by talmidei chachomim throughout the gantze velt. Now, I grada have a mesora from my rabbeiim hakadosh that in order to really lig in the sugya, to mamash be noitel the cheftza of the sugya legamri, to become a emesdike lamdan, a bochur has to be koineh this skill.
And rabosai we’re lacking! (Shtender klap for emphasis.) There are unfortunately hundreds of heilige bnei toirah in the velt who are not maximizing their full potential, because of this issue! And when I sat, and I really thought about this shrekliche gezeira, about all the toirah that’s not being learned bechol Yom, I poshut broke down and cried. I cried! And I went to the heilige Aron koidesh, and I was mevakesh the Eibishter bekol, uverum, to send a refuah for this machlah, to enable his tayereh neshamos to express and vocalize in gantzig the heilige vertlach fun Abaye V’Rava. And raboisai, as we all know, the shaarei demuos loi ninaalu, they never close. And the ribono shel oilam, in his rachmanus, he allowed the answer to be noifel to me.
Ye. Ye. Where was I? Aha, ye, ok. So I grada was thinking epis that we could make efsher a chabura in all the yeshivos hakedoshim to poshut be melamed the oilam in the finer points of the yeshivishe shprach. M’svarah I hold it would revolutionize the oilam hatorah, it would mamash allow the bachurei hayeshiva to delve into the sugyos begoofoi ubekoichoi like we’ve never seen, to create a kol toirah like there was in der heim. Now lechoirah I don’t know how to get this idea out, so I figured I’d post something here, and chavrach chavrah is laih v’chavrah dechavrach chavrah is laih, and we’ll mach a kol in the velt and hopefully these chaburos will soon be taking place wherever you go.
Thank you all for coming out and listening tonight, refreshments and riishus cold seltzer will be served in the back, vehamaivin yavin. A gitte nacht.June 23, 2022 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #2099790vustits420Participant
GevaldikJune 23, 2022 6:35 pm at 6:35 pm #2099787ChadGadyaParticipant
Why do you want me to “accompany you my ears”, whatever that means?June 23, 2022 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #2099811
Lechoirah it was a spelling mistake, lefi aniyas daati it bestama it meant to say malveh, ayin reb Julius lefi the chidushei shel Anthony daf mem ches bemahadura Basra, yesh ayin shum.June 23, 2022 7:29 pm at 7:29 pm #2099827🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Every year or so some poster gets on here and writes a whole long pointless post in yeshivisha shprach thinking they are the funniest person around. I’m trying to figure out if they are doing it because they are making fun of the people who speak that way, they think people will think they actually speak that way, or they just ran out of socially appropriate topics so they figured they’d try vaudeville. Anyone have any suggestions?June 23, 2022 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #2099830
My Rebbe, the Mattersdorfer Rav, Rav Simcha Bunim Ehrenfeld ztz’l interpreted the expression נשיח בחקיך to speak, as you did, using expressions of Torah.June 23, 2022 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #2099831daastorahnotdaasbaalhabatimParticipant
Dont chas vsholom want to be chosech becheshayrim however, meshum zaphod, lechoirah it is mestabru to say the mechabur is quoting the treife narishkeit of Julius Ceasur rachmona litzlan, lochen i am not maskim to his mechor bechol tokufJune 23, 2022 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #2099848
Using “kol kach” gave yourself awayJune 23, 2022 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #2099850☕️coffee addictParticipant
There is a journeys song called yeshivishe Reid that does thisJune 24, 2022 12:58 am at 12:58 am #2099896maskildoreshParticipant
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
Ah, Zaphod, to be (yeshivush) or not to be, that is the question .
Rav Chaim stated that one who lack eloquent articulation of an idea reveals himself to be lacking the n and rue insight, regardless of his language of choice.
Thus spake Zarathustra
Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow creeps in this petty pace from day today …
Is this a delete key I see before me, handle toward my hand?June 24, 2022 2:08 am at 2:08 am #2099899
be malveh me your oznayim, lend me your ears. Are you quoting Marc Anthony? I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.June 24, 2022 7:57 am at 7:57 am #2099904
K, let’s get through these comments. @syag, did somebody else actually do this? If so, I sincerely apologize for subjecting you to repetitive drivel. I will attempt to restrict myself in the future to only writing new and original drivel. If you could send a link to these other posts, I’d love to see them.
I’m also wondering, did the other posts have a point, or were they just posts written in yeshivishe language? I actually do believe that it’s very hard to full grasp a ketzos, brisker rav, or reb shimon, without having a basic understanding of what a chalois and a cheftza is etc.
To answer up @maskildoresh, you I obviously wasn’t arguing on reb Chaim Chas veshalom, it’s simply that the English language, not exactly designed for yeshiva bochurim, does not have the expressive capabilities necessary to fully express the difficult concepts we find in shas, which is how yeshivishe shprach came into existence in the first place.
@daas, yes, the title is indeed a reference to the treifah and tumahdike play written by the boy Shakespeare. This is what is known as elevating the nitzotzos of kedusha from even the lowliest things, to turn the unholy toward a holy purpose, a concept reb Nachman discusses, among other baalei mussar. If that’s your reason for dismissal, you’re going to get sued for unlawful termination.
@avira, please elaborate
@coffee, …June 24, 2022 8:00 am at 8:00 am #2099912
At this point just speak Hebrew. For example, instead of lachen i am not maskim, just say lachen ani lo maskim. You’re half way there!June 24, 2022 8:47 am at 8:47 am #2099932
I, who was educated in a chasidishe yeshivas in yiddish, happen to like his shpiel which puts some yiddishkeit into english. Yiddish has become a dead forgotten language for our current and future generations.June 24, 2022 8:47 am at 8:47 am #2099937
Zaph, i meant that no one uses kol kach in conversation; you’d say “azoi gut” or something. I agree with you very much that without a basic command of Yeshiva terms, you’re not going to understand a lot of achronim.
Yabia; why not speak Hebrew? Well, for starters, no one did until some secular thugs hijacked it and made it in their image.June 24, 2022 8:48 am at 8:48 am #2099934
Speaking just Hebrew would be zionishdik, and not in the spirit of the yeshiviskeit we are trying to accomplish. But if you can find me one chiloni guy, who’s never stepped foot inside a Beis medrash, and he knows what Lechoirah means, then we will consider it.June 24, 2022 10:28 am at 10:28 am #2099992
I think that lechoirah means, apparently.June 24, 2022 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm #2100027
Chadgadya – that would be “melaveh”, OPs term “malveh” is correctJune 24, 2022 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm #2100033
I think it’s the opposite. Our yeshivishe shprach lends itself to a lot of ambiguities. It covers up for when we don’t know what we are saying. Being that for most in yeshiva today English is our first language, our brains would have a clearer understanding of what we can put into clear English.
I’ve heard people ramble endlessly trying to make a point in some yeshivisha sefer that could be succinctly put into one sentence. The general grasp of subject matter in the yeshiva world today is terrible. We talk about ‘ameilus’ and ‘iyun’ and ‘lomdus’. How about ‘havanah’?June 24, 2022 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm #2100039
It does. But it’s not ivrit is my point. Yabia was saying that at this point just speak Hebrew, but a lot of yeshivishe shprach is not in fact Hebrew. To quote Abie rotenberg, “ there’s a dash of Aramaic, a linguistic potpourriiiiii (chorus vechulu).June 24, 2022 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #2100105
לכאורה Maybe it is לך אורה, your light, your current understanding which can be Hebrew.June 24, 2022 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #2100139Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
Heram Wouk’s grandfather came to Amerika, spent some time teaching in Yiddish and after lacking students, decided to go to EY. In the airport, he told his grandson – maybe I should have learnt English, but, on first impression, it sounded very crude so I did not… Of course, he actually did not say that, please translate it back into Yeshivish Yiddish in your head.June 24, 2022 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #2100146
I think Briskers should speak the native tongue of their esteemed Rambam.June 27, 2022 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #2100812
Brisk does not idolize the Rambam.
I did not know that Hebrew was the Rambam’s first language.
Your critiques of the yeshiva are more sensible than some of the other posters here. Still, you assume that the Yeshiva is on the inside what it is to those outside of it.June 28, 2022 1:03 pm at 1:03 pm #2101055
His mother tongue was Arabic!
Not sure what you mean by my critiques.
Also we should all “idolize” (ie. look up to) the Rambam. He was Gadol haGedolim.June 28, 2022 1:04 pm at 1:04 pm #2101060
He said esteemed that does not necessarily idolize him.June 28, 2022 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm #2101070
Oh, I get it. Brisk does not follow the Rambam in such a manner.June 28, 2022 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm #2101073
The Raavad sometimes used a very strong language against the Rambam in order not to idolize him.June 28, 2022 1:15 pm at 1:15 pm #2101076
I’m sorry. I ruined a good line.
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