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Here are the words of the Maharal:
?????”? ?”? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????, ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??, ??? ???? ?? ?? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??”? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????, ???? ??? ?? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???’.
???? ????”? ?”? ????? ???? ????? ???, ?? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ??, ???? ?? ?????? ????”? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???, ?? ??? ???? ???? ?????.
?????? ?? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???”? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????, ?? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ???. ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?????, ????? ??? ???? ??’ ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ?????, ??? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ??????, ??? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??”? ??? ??????.
??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?????, ???? ???? ?? ?????? ?”? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?????, ??? ?? ???? ?? ?? ?? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ????, ??? ??? ???? ?? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???”? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???”? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??”? ????? ???? ??? ??????, ????? ??? ??? ?? ?? ???? (???? ?”?) ????? ?’ ?? ???? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???”? ????? ?????.??? ????? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ??, ??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???”? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?????, ?? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ???”? ?? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ?????, ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??”? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??.
??? ???? ??”? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ?????, ?? ?? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?? ???”? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ????. ?? ??? ???? ?? ??? ????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ????, ?? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ??:
??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ??????, ?? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ???”? ????? ??????, ??? ???? ??? ???? ???”? ????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??”? ???? ????? ???? ?????, ?? ??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ?? ?????, ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??????, ???? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??”? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???? ???, ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???”? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????, ?????? ???? ???? ??”? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??, ?? ????? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ?????? ??”? ???? ???? ??? ?? ?? ????.
?????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?????, ????? ????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??????, ????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????. ?? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?? ???? ?????, ?? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???, ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????, ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ???”? ??? ??? ?? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???, ?????? ??? ???? ???’. ????? ??? ??? ????? ?? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ?????, ???? ??? ??? ?? ?? ????? ????? ??? ???? ??”? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ??’ ???? ?????.
??? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????, ??? ???? ?????? ?”? ?????, ??? ?? ???? ???, ?? ????”? ??? ????? ??? ?????, ????? ???”? ?? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?????, ?? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???”?. ?? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ??”? ????? ?? ???? ??? ????, ??? ?? ????:
As you can see he states that ”
?? ????”? ??? ????? ??? ?????, ????? ???”? ?? ?????
????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?????, ?? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???”?.This is exactly like others have explained here that the world we live in is based on Nature and so naturally/halachakly Chazaka tells us that all are in the same status-quo until proven otherwise.
BTW Square your question is backwards.
The question isnt on the concept of chazaka. chazaka is mentioned before the idea that ” that there is nothing to be taken for granted, and teva is as much a neis as a neis nigleh, ” (though nobody that I’m aware of says this is “all what Judaism stands for” )
the question is on THOSE sources, how can they say that when clearly the Gemara based on pesukim (veyatzah hakohei min habayis…) says there is a concept of chzaka.
to that you can answer as DY has. but the question you posed is backwards
Halevi, Square, Avrah, et al.
“This idea, that the creation is re-created at every instant is not found in Chazal or Rishonim.”
I would go a step further; the very concept of the OP and what is relevant to the question posed, sort of goes AGAINST the ideology of the Rambam.
See Rambam in ????? ????? and ?”? ?”? ???? how he explains the mishnah of ???? ????? ????? ??? ?????? and the Midrash of ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???’ that everything EVEN nissim were all determined at the time of creation, being that naturally there are NO changes in the very nature of creation. And that is the very reason why there had to be a ???? at the very creation of ‘nature’ ?? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ?????.
Although, the Mahral in Derech HaChaim (Avos 5:6) argues strongly against the Rambam’s belief on this matter, he does not go to the complete other side, and say that in essence ‘everything’ is in a constant change etc. And if you carefully read the Mahral’s understanding on the above matter, you will see that the question on Chazaka is not relevant at all.
And in any case, is certainly NOT a tenet in Emuna.
However, we do need to understand and explain properly the Nefesh haChaim and the other ones how this works with the explanation of the Rambam and the Mahral etc. but as far as the Chazaka issue goes it is very consistent with the core belief of the Rambam and others.
I will quote the words of the Mahral and Rambam on the next post
Don’t forget this gematria ???? is the same as ?-?-???.
I believe that this is part of the Hashgacha. Hashem set a condition at the time of creation that he will modify anything that is needed to satisfy creation. Since the world stands on Torah and Mitzvos the condition and benefit in order to continue to perform them constantly changes, so things have to be adjusted constantly as it says ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??????.
Ubiq,
“the question is on THOSE sources, how can they say that when clearly the Gemara based on pesukim (veyatzah hakohei min habayis…) says there is a concept of chzaka”
Well said!!
Agav the Gemara there in Gittin says clearly while there is a chazaka a person is living NOW there is no chazaka that he will stay alive (??? ?? ?? ??????? ??? ???? ???????)
The more pertinent Maharal is this (from Gevuros):
??? ????? ?”? (??? ??”?) ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????. ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ??????, ??? ???? ??? ??? ???, ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????, ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ????, ???? ?? ???? ???? ?? ??????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????. ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ?? ?????, ????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?? ????? ?? ????? ?? ????, ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ????. ??? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ???????.
And later, in the Pirush on Hallel (Ch. 61):
????? ?? ???? (??? ??”? ?”?) ?????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????, ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ???, ??? ?? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ?? ???? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ?”? ?? ?????? ?????? ?”? ????? ???? ??????? ????, ??? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??”? ?? ?????, ??? ?????? ????? ????? ??? (?”? ?”?) ?????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??, ??? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ??”? ?? ????? ??? ?? ?”? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ?????. ???? ????? ???????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??? ????? ???’ ??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?”? ???? ????, ??? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ??
I wish I knew which Yerushalmi he’s referring to.
Thanks HaLeivi for quoting the Maharal.
Who told you what Judaism stands for? As far as I know Judaism’s doctrine is the Torah. The rule of chazakah is derived from the Torah; hence, Judaism stands for it. Is there an actual pasuk or drasha that you think contradicts this rule?
I just noticed my posts are not in order.
The Marahal quote was to be posted after my second (approved) post.
Halevi,
My main point with the Marahal quote was to quote the Rambam and to prove that the Marhal agrees to his point as far as the question goes.
I will re-post it:
“This idea, that the creation is re-created at every instant is not found in Chazal or Rishonim.”
I would go a step further; the very concept of the OP and what is relevant to the question posed, sort of goes AGAINST the ideology of the Rambam.
See Rambam in ????? ????? and ?”? ?”? ???? how he explains the mishnah of ???? ????? ????? ??? ?????? and the Midrash of ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???’ that everything EVEN nissim were all determined at the time of creation, being that naturally there are NO changes in the very nature of creation. And that is the very reason why there had to be a ???? at the very creation of ‘nature’ ?? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ?????.
Although, the Mahral in Derech HaChaim (Avos 5:6) argues strongly against the Rambam’s belief on this matter, he does not go to the complete other side, and say that in essence ‘everything’ is in a constant change etc. And if you carefully read the Mahral’s understanding on the above matter, you will see that the question on Chazaka is not relevant at all.
And in any case, is certainly NOT a tenet in Emuna.”
Gaon, Why are we mentioning in davening ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????? the proof from the creation of the light that is renewed every day according the Torah and Mitzvos that people do and what they deserve which changes daily?
Ls,
“????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??????”
You can say whatever pshat you wish, I don’t know why it contradicts the above Rambam and Mahral on why a ???? was needed etc. See Talmud Chagigah (12b) and in any case, whatever the “????” is, it is within the parameters of how everything was at the time of creation. i.e. Sheshes Yomai Breshis with no changes…The the pasuk ??? ??? ??? ???? rabbi avihu says ???”? ??? ?????? ???????.
Square
“besides for the fact that chiddush ha’olam is mentioned in the brachos instituted by the anshei knesses hagedolah”It doesnt neccesarily mean what you (ie the Nefesh Hachaim) say it does. After all we also say “chok nossan velo yaavor”
And even if it does, doesnt the fact that we say it everyday show the opposite of what you identify as a tennet of faith. you say in the OP “that there is nothing to be taken for granted, and teva is as much a neis as a neis nigleh,”
so how can we say “Hamechadesh bechol yom…” Isnt that “taking it for granted” From the Beracha you see exactly the opposite of your question. We DO take for granted that what existed yesterday exists today. You didnt say in davening “If Hashem wants he is mechadesh bechol yom and if not not, there is just no way to know” We say the exact opposite. We take for granted that He is Mechadesh bechol yom. you said it today, you will say it this evening and tomorrow iyh.“I’m not sure there’s anything “backwards” in posing a question on an earlier source based on what a later source says….See, for just one example, baba basra 81b where the gemara questions a beraisah based on what r’ zeira says.”
firstly The difference between A Nefesh Hachaim and Gemara is much greater than the diffeecne between R’ Zeira and a beraisa. If anything Gemara is a tenent of our faith. Thus if anything Chazaka is a tennet of our faith, and one who rejects the concept of chazaka is an apikores according to the Rambam Teshuva 3:7. I’m not sure that one who rejects a nefesh hachaim or midrahs in Tehillim is in the same category
Secondly the question there isnt on the Beraisa.
Briefly:
The Gemara is discussing what to do with safek bikkurim cant just bring it to the azara if not since that is chulin leazara, so the gemara says he is makdish it. …The Gemara asks but if it is chulin by being makdish it he cant give teruma and maaser from it. Answers that Teruma, masser sheni and ani can be eaten by poor kohein who is podeh it. the Gemara asks what about maaser levi ?
so the Gemara brings a beraisa that accoring to R’ Elazar ben azarya MAssr rishon can be given to Kohein “Teruma gedola goes to a kohein and maaser rishon to levi accoridng to R’ akiva. R’ Elazar ben Azarya says Maaser levi goes to a kohein” (this is the end of the beraisa)Then the Gemara asks what about saying parshas bikkurim ?
Answers reading isnt meaakevThen the gemara asks on that answer (not on the beraisa) from R’ Zeira of kol harai lebila…
The hierarchy of the question is not a big deal. He’s not trying to refute Chazal or the Nefesh Hachayim. He’s merely asking how the two can equate.
The problem is that the question takes a concept and runs with it way too far. To imply that there is no law of nature is wrong. It is likewise wrong to say that this is constantly a new world and all the items in it are replaced each instant. The idea, as expressed earlier, is merely that there is no external existence. The world depends and is made of a constant command to exist.
Rashi explains that one who recites Hallel every day is Mislotzes. He is looking fun of the lack of Nisim. This is similar to the Maharal’s explanation of the fact that there are things around that are contrary to Kvod Shamayim, and only the fact that there are rules of nature can explain this.
“The hierarchy of the question is not a big deal. ”
I agree it isnt a big deal. And square I did not mean to imply that you were trying to refute chazal and I did not mean to apply the Rambam i quoted to you. I see how my comment could be interpreted that way. I’m sorry for not being clearer.
I do think though that it isnt good to confuse taful and ikkur. to elevate an idea found in recent sources to being “all what Judaism stands” and a “core belief” isnt a healthy practice.
That is all I meant, IF you want to delve into said idea further and understand how chazaka fits with it, I get that (regardless of whcih direction the question is posed) all I meant was that between the two concepts namely chazaka and hischadshus haolam, if any is a “core belief” chazaka is the one that is more grounded in our tradiotional sources. (Again not that they both can be)There is no contradiction that at the time creation certain conditions were set. If it is necessary, things can change as needed, but as long as they change, things stay steady so chazaka, inertia applies.
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