December 1, 2011 11:55 pm at 11:55 pm #600941
What is cheating? I was having an hourlong debate with someone about this today and I think- (I’m using the example of a test because thats easiest and I don’t want to give too much details)
Theoretically, if you know the answers to a question but you look at someone elses test and you write her answer, even if it was the same answer you were going to write, is it cheating?
I say no. What do you guys think??December 2, 2011 12:32 am at 12:32 am #833180sam4321Participant
Rav Moshe(CM 2:30) actually has a famous Tshuvah about cheating on regents. If you knew the answer then why would you look. The fact that a person looks they are not confident in their own answer.December 2, 2011 12:34 am at 12:34 am #833181yitzchokmParticipant
yes, because your getting reassurance from looking, and your cheating on that part of the test.December 2, 2011 12:39 am at 12:39 am #833182yitayningwutParticipant
If you really knew the answer, then it isn’t cheating. But the teacher has no reason to believe you knew the answer, and she shouldn’t, because then anyone can claim that. Besides, it’s not proper to make yourself appear like someone who cheats. As Chazal say ????? ??? ?? ???? ?? – since you are good don’t be called bad. But technically speaking, I wouldn’t call it cheating.December 2, 2011 1:24 am at 1:24 am #833184✡onegoal™Participant
It was wrong to look at her paper, but if it was truly and honestly your answer and you were not going to change it then you can write it. This is my opinion.December 2, 2011 1:44 am at 1:44 am #833185yentingyentaParticipant
what if you already wrote your answer when you saw it? that change it? and in this theoretical question, why was the person looking at the neighbor’s paper. personally, (when i wore glasses) i removed my glasses. my eyesight is pretty bad even 1 seat over. just an extra shmira.December 2, 2011 5:16 am at 5:16 am #833186aries2756Participant
The cheating was the act of looking at the other’s paper, if you didn’t see the answer you were still cheating by looking at the other person’s paper. Had you been caught you would have failed for cheating whether or not you would have seen your neighbor’s answer or not.December 2, 2011 6:52 am at 6:52 am #833187
I think sam4321 makes a good point about confidence in your answer.December 2, 2011 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm #833188
Well, it all depends on how you define cheating. Is it the act of going behind someones back? Is it taking credit for something you did not do? Is it still considered cheating if you lets say tell everyone first? So what is cheating?December 2, 2011 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #833189Raphael KaufmanMember
Folks, this isn’t hard. If you have to ask if a certain activity is cheating, it almost certainly is. To paraphrase a famous Supreme Court statement, I may not be able to specifically define cheating but I know it when I see it.December 2, 2011 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #833190frumnotyeshivishParticipant
The Supreme Court was discussing something much more self-evident than cheating. The question here is twofold: are you doing something you expressly said or implied you wouldn’t and therefore lying? And secondly are you gaining an unfair advantage and therefore stealing…December 4, 2011 7:09 am at 7:09 am #833191i love coffeParticipant
Cheating is cheating. You might tell yourself right after you look at the other person’s answer that you were going to write the same thing so therefore its not cheating. But that’s not true. You are just looking for ways to make your act seem better than what it really is. The fact that you looked at the other person’s paper means that you let your yetzer hara get to you and now your yetzer hara is just scheming reasons for why it was okay to do what you just did.
Control yourself and belief in yourself that you know the right answer. Otherwise, just study harder next time.December 4, 2011 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #833192RedNails19Participant
ITS 100000000% CHEATING!!!
Any form of dishonesty is considered cheating- in any shape, color or form!
whats the point? really!?! ad mea vesrim your gonna have to answer to that- is it REALLY worth it?
i remember in HS there were girls cheating- blatently and some more quietly..it was so disgusting to me- like c’mon this is so not worth it! id rather fail than cheat!December 4, 2011 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #833193gefenParticipant
Cinderella – you say you knew the answer but were just checking to see if it was right. what if the other girl’s answer was different? would you have changed yours? If yes – then the answer is obvious. If no – then why look in the first place?
One time when I was in high school we had a multiple choice test. One girl copied the answers straight from the girl in front of her. The problem? She got it one line off! So while here answers were in the correct order ex: b c d a c b etc, they were to the wrong questions. OOPS! Boy did she get in trouble!
Cheating by any other name is still cheating!December 4, 2011 9:23 pm at 9:23 pm #833194
gefen- I did not cheat on a test. I would never cheat. I was just having a debate with someone on the meaning of the word cheating and she used this example. I was just seeing if anyone agreed with me.December 4, 2011 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #833195yitayningwutParticipant
Everyone who said “obviously you’re getting something out of the other person’s paper” – Cinderella said she was asking a theoretical question. What if, in theory, you aren’t?
I still think it’s not a good thing to do. But it’s not “cheating.”December 4, 2011 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #833196
If you knew the answer then why would you look. The fact that a person looks they are not confident in their own answer.
I still think that sam4321 has a good point. I can prove it from experience – in high school, after every test, my friend and I would go over all the questions together, just to make sure we got the same answers. There’s just some subconscious urge to second-guess yourself. And it’s a little bit iffy to indulge in that during the time construct of the test…December 4, 2011 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #833197
Thanks yitay- finally someone agrees with me!
Oneofmany- How do you define cheating? (and forget the test example you are getting too hung up on that)December 4, 2011 11:56 pm at 11:56 pm #833198
I don’t have any definition. I just don’t think your theoretical example is sound.December 5, 2011 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #833199gefenParticipant
cinderella – sorry for saying you cheated.
but i still maintain that your example is classified as cheating.December 6, 2011 12:12 am at 12:12 am #833200moishyParticipant
What aveira would cheating be(if any)?December 6, 2011 3:02 am at 3:02 am #833201
Genaiva- Genaivas daas??December 6, 2011 3:03 am at 3:03 am #833202sam4321Participant
Moishy: Rav Moshe discusses cheating on regents and mentions it is assur m’shum dina d’malchusa dina,and m’ din Torah. He also says it is genavas daas which is assur for a non-jew as well. (http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=921&st=&pgnum=241&hilite=)December 6, 2011 3:23 am at 3:23 am #833203moishyParticipant
cinderella- yeah that’s what I was thinking too…
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