July 26, 2010 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #592032
i heard that chess was invented by shlomo hamelech.is this true? is there a source for it?July 26, 2010 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #922975WolfishMusingsParticipant
I highly doubt it was invented by Shlomo. But let’s put that aside for a moment.
So what? Does it change your life in any way at all whether Shlomo invented chess or not? Does it change your outlook on life, your hashkafah, your relationship with HKBH or the way you conduct your day-to-day life?
So, what’s the difference?
The WolfJuly 26, 2010 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #922976
it doesn’t change much. but i have a thirst for knowledge, even useless knowledge. its a habit i guess. whether it’s a good habit or a bad habit i don’t know. but i like knowing stuff. 🙂July 26, 2010 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #922977blinkyParticipant
Why so cynical? Thats why this is the coffee room-you can write anything of interest here. Not everything posted here has to be “changing your outlook” in life or whatever else you mentioned. Maybe it does not interest you but to someone else it does.July 26, 2010 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #922978WolfishMusingsParticipant
Fair enough. My apologies.
The WolfJuly 26, 2010 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #922979LBKParticipant
I thought that chess was originally some sort or persian or arabic gameJuly 26, 2010 8:14 pm at 8:14 pm #922980July 29, 2010 3:40 am at 3:40 am #922981YakovLMember
Rashi in Kesubos 61b mentions a game named “ISHKIKISH”. The Metargem in the back of the Gemoro explains this game as “Shachshpil”
There are mekoros that say the chess game was invented by Shlomo Hamelech.
There are mekoros that say Reb Shimon Hagodol – the famous Payat from Gantze was able to recognize from a chess game that the pope of his days was jewish and was his lost son whom he has not seen for many yearsJuly 29, 2010 4:04 am at 4:04 am #922983ZachKessinMember
Chess was invented in Persia or India about 1100 years ago, But the modern form of the game only showed up about 300 years ago. There were a lot of variations between then and now. (I Actually have a book somewhere that shows many of them, some of them are very strange)July 29, 2010 11:11 am at 11:11 am #922984blubluhParticipant
Would one suppose that Shlomo HaMelech also designed the shape of the pieces (like, the cross on the king, r”l)? Perhaps the theory is that he put his own symbol on the original and it was changed as other empires came to power.July 29, 2010 11:24 am at 11:24 am #922985ChachamParticipant
maybe shlomo hamelech taught it to the queen of sheeba.
and it is for sure over 1100 years old being the gemorah mentions itJuly 29, 2010 2:18 pm at 2:18 pm #922986
yaakov what are the mekoros?July 29, 2010 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #922987
Does Rashi interpret the Gemara as refering to chess when it mentions nardeshir in Kesuvos 61b?July 29, 2010 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #922988
Oy. We used to look to our Rishonim for elucidation of Shach Taz. I never thought we’d be looking to them for Shach Mat.July 29, 2010 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #922989
Want to play another game?
I have a confession. I did look into my chess book for that opening (bows head in shame). Its been eating at me for a while. I won’t do that again.July 29, 2010 4:00 pm at 4:00 pm #922990
I’d like to, but I don’t think either one of us is around frequently enough for that any more.
But maybe we could play a game when I pick up that sweater that you knitted for me 🙂July 29, 2010 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #922991
OK, but I need your measurements.
Do you forgive me for looking up the opening?July 29, 2010 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #922992
Of course. As I said at the time, either you were misrepresenting yourself as a 900 rating or you had help with your moves.July 29, 2010 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #922993
Thank you Squeak.
It was an interesting opening though and I learnt a lot. I’m still embarrased about that though 🙁July 29, 2010 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #922994
At least you weren’t running his moves against Deep Blue, and playing Deep Blue’s positions…July 29, 2010 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #922995
Deep Blue’s shortcomings are easily exploited. I would get a kick out of playing a game against someone trying to trip me up by asking DB for help.
When DB doesn’t have the help of 6 grandmasters, that isJuly 29, 2010 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #922996
You wouldn’t know, while playing, she is using DB’s moves – so you wouldn’t know to exploit them.July 29, 2010 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #922997
Max, you misunderestimate me. You should know me better than that.July 29, 2010 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #922998
Garry Kasparov?July 29, 2010 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #922999
I’ve been called worse. But I, unlike Kasparov, have never been beaten by Deep Blue.July 29, 2010 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #923000YakovLMember
Max well -Does Rashi interpret the Gemara as refering to chess when it mentions nardeshir in Kesuvos 61b?
The answer is “YES”
oy vey kids these days -yaakov what are the mekoros?
There is a seifer called Beis Hamedrash from
in vol #6 pages 124-126 (This is just one mekor)July 30, 2010 2:14 am at 2:14 am #923001July 30, 2010 3:39 am at 3:39 am #923002
yaakov what is the earliest mekor you know of?July 30, 2010 3:42 am at 3:42 am #923003
Why, are “later” mekors chopped liver?
So far the earliest mekors mentioned on this thread alone are the Gemorah and Rashi.July 30, 2010 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #923004HelpfulMember
Is there a problem playing chess due to the Christian religious figures represented in the game?August 1, 2010 2:09 am at 2:09 am #923005
no but the earlier mekoros were closer to the invention of chess so chances are they are more accurateAugust 1, 2010 2:34 am at 2:34 am #923006
maxwell i didnt see that the gemara says that shlomo hamelech invented chess whichline is it?August 1, 2010 4:39 am at 4:39 am #923007so rightMember
who said dovid invented it??August 1, 2010 6:37 am at 6:37 am #923008chofetzchaimMember
There is a seifer called Beis Hamedrash from
in vol #6 pages 124-126 (This is just one mekor)
Does anyone know who wrote this and when was it written?January 22, 2013 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #923009trachtglatParticipant
See Yeshurun v. 21 pg. 758-9 (available here > http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46427&st=&pgnum=758&hilite=) where he dis-credits much in Aharon Yellnik’s (preacher at a Vienna Temple in the second half of the 1800’s) sefer Beis Hamedrash and shows the foolishness of the chess-story. By the way, the only source Yellnik quotes (in his intro at pg. XXXI) for the legend is a book of folk-tales or ma’aseh-buch.
Unfortunately, the story has now spread to several other jewish-legend-style books (each with their own version) while providing Yellnik’s Beis Hamedrash as the source.January 23, 2013 2:31 am at 2:31 am #923010Ken ZaynMember
Chess Invented By…
It was invented by a big shot ROOKIE BISHOP who thought of himself as the GRAND MASTER, and he lived in a CASTLE with a KING and QUEEN who had 8 RANKS of HORSES, but he failed to grasp, even EN PASSANT, that he was but a PAWN in their hands. While overseeing the Royal treasury he was very casual, especially with wages. It is alleged that, as an OPENING GAMBIT, he once handed over old currency to the senior KNIGHT while shouting “here is your CHECK, MATE”, to which came the COUNTERGAMBIT retort “its also a little STALE, MATE”January 23, 2013 4:00 am at 4:00 am #923011yeshivishaguy in freezerMember
i heard shmuel hamelech only invented chess but not speed chessJanuary 23, 2013 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #923013oomisParticipant
I also thought it was an Arab game, with the expression “check” mate originating from the “Sheik’s mate” (the Queen) being captured.November 25, 2021 6:31 am at 6:31 am #2033700shmerelberelParticipant
Oomis- close – it’s Shach (Sheik/King) Mat (dead). Mat is dead in Arabic. Similar to Meit מת in Hebrew. That’s why Israelis and Arabs today call Chess “Shachmat”. And Chess is probably just an Anglicized version of Shach.November 25, 2021 8:10 am at 8:10 am #2033730
Then, instead of Bishops and Cardinals there should be Imams and Ayatollahs.November 25, 2021 8:28 am at 8:28 am #2033763Little FroggieParticipant
.. And that took you seven years to think of?!?November 25, 2021 9:57 am at 9:57 am #2033772hujuParticipant
To Chacham: If the Gemarah mentions chess, what is the Hebrew or Aramaic word for “chess” that appears in the text?November 25, 2021 9:59 am at 9:59 am #2033781Reb EliezerParticipant
In Hungary there is no bishop as bishop’s don’t run multiple squares but a runner or messenger.November 25, 2021 9:49 pm at 9:49 pm #2034226
Should we play a game here?
every time there is a Teiku in a discussion, the tie should be decided by a chess game.November 25, 2021 9:49 pm at 9:49 pm #2034227
Bishops were European substitute, Persians/Arabs had a guy on an elephant. There is something about Rashi’s confusion with elephants somewhere also … Hungary is probably close enough to the East to not get confused.November 25, 2021 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #2034270
Chess is only muttar on Nittel Nacht.
Which means I must soon be prepared to continue my game with squeak… (See the game thread.)November 26, 2021 7:39 am at 7:39 am #2034337
> Chess is only muttar on Nittel Nacht.
Rav Feinstein played until he was 8 or 9 years old and stopped on his own because it interfered with his learning (another writer clarifies – because he played too seriously and it did not feel like relaxation and thus took time fro learning). So, it seems that even if you feel that you are smarter than R Feinstein at 8, you can still play if it is relaxing. Also, Shmuel Reshevsky played all his life and nobody in Monsey put him to herem.November 27, 2021 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #2034725AshParticipant
there are no proofs from gemorah or Rashi for this legend. The hametargem is only 130 in years old and is not considered reliable.November 27, 2021 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #2034788GoldilocksParticipant
Umj, nittel occurs on Shabbos this year; please don’t spend time online on Shabbos!November 27, 2021 8:49 pm at 8:49 pm #2034844
Which Nittel? There’s December 25 and there’s January 6.
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