Chess Invented By…

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  • #592032

    i heard that chess was invented by shlomo hamelech.is this true? is there a source for it?

    #922975
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I highly doubt it was invented by Shlomo. But let’s put that aside for a moment.

    So what? Does it change your life in any way at all whether Shlomo invented chess or not? Does it change your outlook on life, your hashkafah, your relationship with HKBH or the way you conduct your day-to-day life?

    So, what’s the difference?

    The Wolf

    #922976

    it doesn’t change much. but i have a thirst for knowledge, even useless knowledge. its a habit i guess. whether it’s a good habit or a bad habit i don’t know. but i like knowing stuff. 🙂

    #922977
    blinky
    Participant

    Why so cynical? Thats why this is the coffee room-you can write anything of interest here. Not everything posted here has to be “changing your outlook” in life or whatever else you mentioned. Maybe it does not interest you but to someone else it does.

    #922978
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Blinky,

    Fair enough. My apologies.

    The Wolf

    #922979
    LBK
    Participant

    I thought that chess was originally some sort or persian or arabic game

    #922980
    blockhead
    Participant
    #922981
    YakovL
    Member

    Rashi in Kesubos 61b mentions a game named “ISHKIKISH”. The Metargem in the back of the Gemoro explains this game as “Shachshpil”

    There are mekoros that say the chess game was invented by Shlomo Hamelech.

    There are mekoros that say Reb Shimon Hagodol – the famous Payat from Gantze was able to recognize from a chess game that the pope of his days was jewish and was his lost son whom he has not seen for many years

    #922983
    ZachKessin
    Member

    Chess was invented in Persia or India about 1100 years ago, But the modern form of the game only showed up about 300 years ago. There were a lot of variations between then and now. (I Actually have a book somewhere that shows many of them, some of them are very strange)

    #922984
    blubluh
    Participant

    Would one suppose that Shlomo HaMelech also designed the shape of the pieces (like, the cross on the king, r”l)? Perhaps the theory is that he put his own symbol on the original and it was changed as other empires came to power.

    #922985
    Chacham
    Participant

    maybe shlomo hamelech taught it to the queen of sheeba.

    and it is for sure over 1100 years old being the gemorah mentions it

    #922986

    yaakov what are the mekoros?

    #922987
    Max Well
    Member

    Does Rashi interpret the Gemara as refering to chess when it mentions nardeshir in Kesuvos 61b?

    #922988
    squeak
    Participant

    Oy. We used to look to our Rishonim for elucidation of Shach Taz. I never thought we’d be looking to them for Shach Mat.

    #922989
    SJSinNYC
    Member

    LOL Squeak.

    Want to play another game?

    I have a confession. I did look into my chess book for that opening (bows head in shame). Its been eating at me for a while. I won’t do that again.

    #922990
    squeak
    Participant

    I’d like to, but I don’t think either one of us is around frequently enough for that any more.

    But maybe we could play a game when I pick up that sweater that you knitted for me 🙂

    #922991
    SJSinNYC
    Member

    OK, but I need your measurements.

    Do you forgive me for looking up the opening?

    #922992
    squeak
    Participant

    Of course. As I said at the time, either you were misrepresenting yourself as a 900 rating or you had help with your moves.

    #922993
    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Thank you Squeak.

    It was an interesting opening though and I learnt a lot. I’m still embarrased about that though 🙁

    #922994
    Max Well
    Member

    At least you weren’t running his moves against Deep Blue, and playing Deep Blue’s positions…

    #922995
    squeak
    Participant

    Deep Blue’s shortcomings are easily exploited. I would get a kick out of playing a game against someone trying to trip me up by asking DB for help.

    When DB doesn’t have the help of 6 grandmasters, that is

    #922996
    Max Well
    Member

    You wouldn’t know, while playing, she is using DB’s moves – so you wouldn’t know to exploit them.

    #922997
    squeak
    Participant

    Max, you misunderestimate me. You should know me better than that.

    #922998
    Max Well
    Member

    Garry Kasparov?

    #922999
    squeak
    Participant

    I’ve been called worse. But I, unlike Kasparov, have never been beaten by Deep Blue.

    #923000
    YakovL
    Member

    Max well -Does Rashi interpret the Gemara as refering to chess when it mentions nardeshir in Kesuvos 61b?

    The answer is “YES”


    oy vey kids these days -yaakov what are the mekoros?

    There is a seifer called Beis Hamedrash from

    in vol #6 pages 124-126 (This is just one mekor)

    #923001
    Chacham
    Participant
    #923002

    yaakov what is the earliest mekor you know of?

    #923003
    Max Well
    Member

    Why, are “later” mekors chopped liver?

    So far the earliest mekors mentioned on this thread alone are the Gemorah and Rashi.

    #923004
    Helpful
    Member

    Is there a problem playing chess due to the Christian religious figures represented in the game?

    #923005

    no but the earlier mekoros were closer to the invention of chess so chances are they are more accurate

    #923006

    maxwell i didnt see that the gemara says that shlomo hamelech invented chess whichline is it?

    #923007
    so right
    Member

    who said dovid invented it??

    #923008
    chofetzchaim
    Member

    There is a seifer called Beis Hamedrash from

    in vol #6 pages 124-126 (This is just one mekor)

    Does anyone know who wrote this and when was it written?

    #923009
    trachtglat
    Participant

    See Yeshurun v. 21 pg. 758-9 (available here > http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46427&st=&pgnum=758&hilite=) where he dis-credits much in Aharon Yellnik’s (preacher at a Vienna Temple in the second half of the 1800’s) sefer Beis Hamedrash and shows the foolishness of the chess-story. By the way, the only source Yellnik quotes (in his intro at pg. XXXI) for the legend is a book of folk-tales or ma’aseh-buch.

    Unfortunately, the story has now spread to several other jewish-legend-style books (each with their own version) while providing Yellnik’s Beis Hamedrash as the source.

    #923010
    Ken Zayn
    Member

    Chess Invented By…

    It was invented by a big shot ROOKIE BISHOP who thought of himself as the GRAND MASTER, and he lived in a CASTLE with a KING and QUEEN who had 8 RANKS of HORSES, but he failed to grasp, even EN PASSANT, that he was but a PAWN in their hands. While overseeing the Royal treasury he was very casual, especially with wages. It is alleged that, as an OPENING GAMBIT, he once handed over old currency to the senior KNIGHT while shouting “here is your CHECK, MATE”, to which came the COUNTERGAMBIT retort “its also a little STALE, MATE”

    #923011

    i heard shmuel hamelech only invented chess but not speed chess

    #923013
    oomis
    Participant

    I also thought it was an Arab game, with the expression “check” mate originating from the “Sheik’s mate” (the Queen) being captured.

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