Chicken for the seder – I need advice, fast!

Home Forums Decaffeinated Coffee Chicken for the seder – I need advice, fast!

Tagged: 

Viewing 36 posts - 1 through 36 (of 36 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1844143
    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    It’s like this: We don’t serve roasted meat or poultry at the seder, for halachic reasons. I don’t think we can get beef this year. How does anybody serve chicken at the seder? Please help.

    #1844219
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Baked?

    #1844220
    ys358
    Participant

    You can boil the chicken the halachic problem is when it is baked or roasted (i.e. without liquid)

    #1844226

    1. old fashioned soup chicken,.

    2. sauce from a can of peaches mixed with ketchup. pour over chicken, simmer in a saucepan

    3. Fried Lhalacha is considered mevushal

    4. chop two onions, add a 3/4 cup of ketchup .cook for a few minutes then add the chicken and simmer

    #1844230
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @Mrs. P
    Throwback recipe from the 1970s that my mother Z”L would make for the second seder.

    Mix one bottle Russian dressing, one cup apricot jam and and one envelope of onion soup mix (for each chicken)
    coat chicken parts well and allow to marinate for a couple of hours, Place in baking/roasting pan, pour the remaining marinade over the top and bake at 325 for about an hour.

    Don’t have KP Russian dressing?, then use equal parts ketchup and mayonnaise with a little bit of diced pickle.

    Keeps food extremely moist and as it is somewhat sweet it goes well with the vinegar based new kraut and relishes that are found on our Pesach table.

    #1844256
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I’m glad I don’t do the cooking in the house 😜

    #1844260
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    chicken marsala

    #1844268
    jdb
    Participant

    With chicken, so many amazing recipes with tomatoes, balsamic vinegar, look them up online. So tender, it’s one of my favorite dishes all year round.

    I know someone who used to make a big turkey and baste it in orange juice. Stuff is with matza and goodies. Comes out great.

    If you can get a roast (beef), baste it in wine, salt and pepper on the outside, then onion and garlic in the wine on the bottom. Bake it low and slow, it comes out amazing.

    #1844272
    funnybone
    Participant

    Chicken and potatoes, onion, water to cover. Cook two hours

    #1844300
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Does halacha prohibit throwing the chicken on your backyard grill and using a simple basting with simple sauce made from olive oil, honey fresh herbs and lemon? Keep it light and avoid heavy sweet sauces.

    #1844334
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Mrs. Plony, do you eat gebrokts?

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by Y.W. Editor.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by Reb Eliezer.
    #1844345

    I know someone who used to make a big turkey and baste it in orange juice. Stuff is with matza and goodies. Comes out great.: only if one eats gebrokts.

    #1844564
    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    These all sound good. Thank you, everybody, for your input.

    BTW, I’m pretty sure that baked or grilled falls under the ‘roasted’ category, so we won’t be doing those for the seder. Maybe by other Pesach meals. But don’t rely on me – if you’ve been doing that for your sedorim, then consult your Rabbi.

    #1844641
    Milhouse
    Participant

    GHT, yes, grilling on the BBQ is roasting, and is not allowed at the seder. Pot roast, i.e. baked or cooked without added liquid, is not allowed either.

    But baked with liquid shouldn’t be any different from cooked with liquid. After all, what difference does it make whether it’s cooked in a pot on the stove or in a pan in the oven? The main thing is that there is liquid, so it’s not a kind of roasting.

    See siman 476, and the nos’ei keilim.

    #1844642
    Milhouse
    Participant

    PS: I’m not sure that a mere marinade counts as enough added liquid to save it from being considered a pot roast. I haven’t found a source that says how much liquid must be added, but it seems to me that it must be enough to change the nature of the cooking process from a dry one to a wet one.

    #1844704
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    We cook the chicken in a sauce grated horse radish, grated celery root, or tomato sauce

    #1844718

    milhouse: Rabbi Ribiat in his hilchos pesach sefer )(page164) 2″-3″ of water (as heard from Rav Belsky ZATZAL)

    #1844743
    from Long Island
    Participant

    Every year I make Chicken Cacciatore. It is cooked on the stove, then in the oven, covered for a few hours. The longer it cooks the softer it gets. No roasting, broiling.

    FYI, now my daughters make it for their Sedurim. Family memories !!

    #1844901

    from long island: do you have a recipe?

    #1845091
    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Yeah, from Long Island, is it some family secret, or can you share?

    Millhouse, I’m so glad you were able to quote a source, because right now I don’t have the mindframe to look it up, and I was afraid that somebody would challenge me about Halacha.

    (Hmm. I don’t think that ‘mindframe’ is a word, after all. Sorry.)

    But anyway, could you please do me a favor, and avoid saying that something is “not allowed.” I know that you mean it in the best way, but without context it sounds a little judgmental, and right now the world is in such a severe state of din, that I just wish everybody would be soft, sweet, and loving. Even if it actually isn’t allowed, we can phrase it gently. Thanks.

    #1845151
    ari-free
    Participant

    Milhouse you can grill chicken and then cook it in a sauce (source: Rabbi Lesches of Melbourne)
    “Roasted meat or poultry may not be eaten
    at the Seder, even if it was cooked prior to
    roasting. However, it may be eaten if it was
    cooked after roasting. [Liver is often just
    roasted, and it should therefore not be
    eaten at the Seder.] Pot-roast is treated as
    regular roast, unless water or juice is added
    before cooking.”

    #1845161

    Mrs. Plony: is saying “included in the minhag of not eating TZLI” acceptable?

    #1845162

    4. chop two onions, add a 3/4 cup of ketchup .cook for a few minutes then add the chicken and simmer . I forgot the other ingredient 3/4 cup of brown sugar.

    Another thought: grind up some of the chicken and make chicken “meatballs” in tomato sauce.

    #1845575
    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Hi, lowerourtuition11210. I thought it was a halacha, not just a minhag. (Although minhagim are pretty serious, too.) But, yeah, I was thinking of phraseology along those lines. “It’s halachically problematic.”

    #1845632
    rational
    Participant

    It is minhag, not halachah. The issur (Ashkenazic, sefradim permit) is roasting lamb on a rotisserie. Roasting in an oven is not roasting, but baking. Again, those who do not roast (bake) meat or chicken do so on the basis of minhag.

    #1846026
    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Thanks, rational.

    I do feel obligated to mention that even though a minhag is not a halacha, it’s still pretty serious.

    So it sounds like the chicken cacciatore is the winner in my house.

    This should be our worst problem, right?

    #1846098

    Rational: While not eating tzli on pesach night is a minhag, tzli still has a halachic definition. Tzli by halachic definition means roasting, baking, cooking without the medium of a liquid. What we in english call “baking in the oven” if there is no liquid in the pan it is called tzli halachically. I can have two pans in the oven at the same time,
    one with chicken and spices and no liquid and the other a piece of meat with 2 or 3 inches of liquid and the chicken halachically would be called tzli and the meat halachically would be called mevushal.

    #1846159
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    See SA O’CH 475,2 says for those who has a custom not to eat tzli chicken is included because of mares ayin, even though roasting without water in a pot is considered according to Rambam Hilchas Korban Pesach (8,8) like cooked.

    #1846169
    rational
    Participant

    I respectfully disagree. While roasting on a rotisserie, the meat is roasted by the fire itself, hence the term tzli. When covered in an oven, it is not baked (cooked) by the fire, but by the boiling heat of the juices of the meat itself. These hot juices are considered liquid. In the rotisserie, the fat and juices drip out, unlike the oven where the liquid juices are maintained inside.

    I cannot see any problem of mar’is ayin if something is in an oven. Furthermore, since there are different minhagim , and some allow for baking meat, or even using a rotisserie, there can be no issue of mar’is ayin.

    #1846195

    Reb Eliezer: The mishna berurah says the opposite, “VAFILU TZLI KEIDAR (PIRUSH SHEHNITZLU BIKDEIRA BLO MAYIM VSHUM MASHKEH ELAH MISBASHEL B”MOHEL HAYOTZEI MEMENU) see 476:1:1 https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49627&st=&pgnum=175

    #1846216
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    lower, I said exactly what the MB said. It should be mutar because it is considered cooked but because of mares ayen it is assur.

    #1846249

    Rational: you may disagree but as noted in my response to Reb Eliezer the Mishna Berur does not agree that the meat or chickens own juices are considered liquid to remove it form the TZLI category. see 476:1:1. In the same sif koton he says that tzli keidar is maras ayin.

    #1846354

    Reb Eliezer: Neither my maggid shiur or my rov were medayik that it should be muttar as it is mevushal.

    #1846358
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Reb Elieizer: Sadly, this year, there will be no ayin to be mares…..the only ones at the seder are those already in the home who will know how it was cooked… For future years, hopefully moisiach will be around so we won’t be eating “chicken”. after the geulah.

    #1846250
    from Long Island
    Participant

    Chicken Cacciatore;

    Dredge chicken pieces in potato starch. In frying pan with oil, brown & remove.

    Add more oil. Add in 1 onion (per chicken) diced, 1/2 green pepper diced (per chicken), a 16 oz. can or 16 ounces fresh mushrooms sliced. Soften & lightly brown.

    Add a 32 Oz. can chopped tomatos, 2 cans tomato sauce, 4 cans of water. Sugar to taste (so it does not taste bitter).

    Bring to boil.

    Lower to simmer. Submerge chicken in sauce, let cook at least a 1/2 hour covered. check a couple of times to make sure nothing is burning.

    Cool. Put into tin trays, cover tightly. (I freeze at this point).
    Ready to eat ? Put into oven defrosted, at least 2 hours before eating at 325. and Done.

    Remember, the longer it sits in the oven, covered tightly, the better it will taste.

    FYI, during the year I add sliced garlic (a ton) to the frying veggies. We don’t use on Pesach.

    #1846431
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    GH. You know that if something is assur because of mares ayin even bechadrei chadorim is assur.

Viewing 36 posts - 1 through 36 (of 36 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.