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I was at a levaya yesterday and was shocked to see someone, I think the granddaughter of the nifteress, brought a child in a carrige. The child looked like he was a few months old. I said something to my sister who said that babysitters are hard to find. Am I nuts or should the mother just have stayed home in that case? The child started crying in the middle of the levaya. I don’t know if the mother took him out but it didn’t sound like it.
I know babysitters are expencive and many people bring babies to wedding lately, but I think this crosses the line.
Sorry but was exactly is the major issue here?
OK here is my take on this. In general, I do not believe children belong at weddings, funerals, or even at shul until they are able to sit quietly and without disrupting anyone. That being said, the person who brought the baby might have been very close to the niftar or to the family, and was unable to get a last-moment babysitter (funerals are SO inconvenient, aren’t they!). Weighing the pros and cons, and being dan l’kaf zechus, I think if the baby is quiet, it’s not so terrible for them, to be there, but if they start to cry or make other noises, take them out immediately. People have to use their seichel. It is NOT OK to have a baby there carrying on and upsetting the aveilim. That is inconsiderate, no matter whose baby it is. It is also very frightening for small children (though not to babies), to see adults crying and mourning. They definitely should not be taken to the cemetery, IMO.
Same goes for a wedding, IMO. I have a friend whose daughter’s chuppah was shall we say NOT enhanced by the constant squalling of the baby of a close family member who should have known better and sprung for a sitter at the wedding, AND would not take the baby out. My daughter took my grandson (my son’s child) to the back of the chuppah room after he walked down, so that if he became unruly for any reason, or bored, she could exit immediately with him. Fortunately it was not necessary, but we couldn’t predict how he would behave. People tend to forget that not everyone finds their precious darlings equally precious ALL the time, especially if they are doing what little ones predictably generally do, which is be disruptive. It is unfair to a small child to expect him to behave perfectly, and to put him in that situation is expecting too much of him. Yes, they are all cute dressed up, they are adorable when they are smiling, and it makes for nice pictures, etc. but they have their limits, and should not be placed in circumstances where they cannot be expected to behave sedately for long periods of time. If chalilah it is a funeral, not a fun experience for anyone, much less a child, keep ’em home, or bring another adult who can help out with the child, if you MUST bring him.
This reminds me of a story: A man comes to the Super Bowl and sees an old lady sitting in the best seat in the house, right at the 50-yard line. HE notices that the seat next to her is empty. He asks her if anyone is sitting there and she says that she and her husband have been attending the Super Bowl together for 60 years, but unfortunately, he passed away. The man asked her, “Couldn’t you find anyone – a friend or family member to come with you?” She answered, “They’re all at the funeral”.
As you can see, it isn’t easy to find someone who is not going to the funeral, especially on such short notice. I wonder if Misaskim has babysitter services, if not maybe they should.
Ha 42! very cute!
You know something — that is a great idea! Maybe not misaskim, but there should be a babysitting gemach for emergency situations, like levayas, or parents needing to go the ER, with small kids at home.
oomis: Try finding someone that would be interested in volunteering.
While the idea is certainly an excellent one, there are deatils which would need to be worked out, for example – would you drop off your baby at some stranger’s home because their name was on a babysitting gmach list?
What’s wrong with someone crying at a levayah?
Jothar, a howling baby who is not immediately taken out, thus intefering with hearing the eulogies, bears no relation to “crying at a levayah”, which isn’t high-pitched and shrieking.
My feeling is that only someone who has gone through the experience of attending a loved one’s levayah can fully understand the impropriety of this.
I was being facetious.
I had the same problem at megilla this year. Despite the announcement to remove all crying infants, the guy in front of me sat with a crying infant on his lap. He had a kosher megilla, but as for the rest of us…
Thanks for the clarification, Jothar. I must learn to read you better :).
on a side note:
when you bring your children to Shul to run around and play,
you are teaching them that a Shul is a playground.
they will internalize this teaching and return to Shul as adults, primarily to socialize, eat, drink, and play with their blackberries
Jothar….I can sympathize with you about Purim and megillah reading. We have a party right after megillah reading so all the people come with small children who cry and make noise at megillah reading. This year I was smart and did not go to that laining, I went to the second laining for women only and there were no kids and it was nice and quiet.
oomis: Try finding someone that would be interested in volunteering.
In my neighborhood – – I definitely would.
mod42: wow nice story there, i loved it!
a misaskim service for baby sitting would be nice, but i gatta say charlie brown did have a good point! just cause someone’s on the gemach list, would you really want to leave your kid with them!?
how about a neighbor you are friendly with? they may not be going to the same things (like funerals) you are. & are nearby in case of emergency.
The idea would be that the people who volunteer to be on the gemach would have to be approved (just as Hatzalah or Bikur Cholim volunteers are approved. And only then would they be on the list of people on call. This would only be used for an emergency, NOT “I need a babysitter because I have to go shopping,” situation.
A revised version of this plan would possibly be to have a rotation of volunteers in each shul, such as if a person has an emergency (hopefully a good one) to call on certain people such as the A family available 6-10 on monday and tuesday, the B family available on sunday afternoons… I know of a shul that has a similar program in place. They set up a rotation for meals for someone who had a baby etc and it’s beautiful. But getting back to my idea, in this way, people would know who they’re leaving their children with and wont have to worry.
Problems will come up when the rabbis daughter gets married…
oomis,
if its thoroughly prescreened I guess it makes sense – its just different than hatzalah or bikur cholim because in those cases the parent stays with the child, you’re not leaving him in the care of a stranger.
Yes that’s true, but the comparison is strictly in the sense of such volunteer caregivers being pre-screened and acceptable babysitters.
Moderator-42,
my daughter called Misaskim and suggested your idea. they were receptive and said that they would get back to her.
mdlevine,
you mean they didn’t see it themselves in the CR??? I didn’t realize there were any yidden outside of the CR anymore!
charlie brown: yeah with the espionage in the CR, seems like they should have heard about it!
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