July 11, 2012 10:50 am at 10:50 am #604071
We all know whats going on in Israel right now with the government wanting to draft yeshiva bachurim into the army Rachmana nitzlan. My question is, there are so many bachurim who are “officially” in yeshiva, but are sitting in their rooms all day watching movies or in internet cafes. Don’t you think it would be a good idea for these boys to go to the army. Maybe it would knock some sense into them and help them mature. Of course if these boys are learning for at least a short time a day, serious learning, they should stay in yeshiva. Im talking about the kind who don’t know what the beis hamidrash looks like. The rule should be ‘If your not learning you have to serve”.There is a wonderful nachal chareidi where the boys daven, learn and have a structure.
I would love to hear your opinions on the matter.July 11, 2012 12:39 pm at 12:39 pm #886855kfbParticipant
I don’t get what the big deal is for these guys to take off from learning full time for a couple of years to protect other Jews. There are 613 mitzvos, not just one mitzvah to learn. Perhaps the army could teach these bochrim to grow up a little and take responsibility instead of takin handouts from the government.July 11, 2012 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #886856ChortkovParticipant
R’ Leib Gurvitz zt’l of Gateshead Yeshiva used to see ?????? who ‘weren’t cut out for learning’ and would find them a job with the local baalabatim, telling them that they will be more ????? working.July 11, 2012 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #886857InfallibleMember
I was in the IDF in a religious unit and even there you have to be incredibly strong religiously because being put in situations that few people can resist the temptations that are thrown at them are a given.July 24, 2012 2:28 am at 2:28 am #886858
let me get this straight, you want to introduce a mandatory draft, irrelevant of its pros and cons right now, based purely on the fact that some boys who are enrolled in yeshivas are not learning? Do you have a percentage or any such data which would make this worth it? Do you believe that more boys in yeshiva are masquerading as yeshiva bochurim than are actually learning?
Im confused, would love to see this data which warrants the disbanding of yeshivas in order to bring swift end to the grand hoax which no one has yet noticed. Yeh – you knock some sense into them, you were clearly in the army as you seem to have the sense knocked in you!July 24, 2012 3:08 am at 3:08 am #886859popa_bar_abbaParticipant
My socrates, you don’t read other people’s posts either.July 24, 2012 3:14 am at 3:14 am #886860mw13Participant
“My question is, there are so many bachurim who are “officially” in yeshiva, but are sitting in their rooms all day watching movies or in internet cafes. Don’t you think it would be a good idea for these boys to go to the army. Maybe it would knock some sense into them and help them mature.”
First of all, would you trust the secular, often anti-religious Israeli government to decide who’s learning well enough and who’s not?
Second, the bochrim spending all day online or watching movies are the worst people to put in the army. To put them into an entirely secular, if not blatantly anti-religious environment can do no good.
“I don’t get what the big deal is for these guys to take off from learning full time for a couple of years to protect other Jews. There are 613 mitzvos, not just one mitzvah to learn.”
We hold li’halacha that one should not be mevatel talmud Torah for a mitzva that is efshar la’asos al yiday achairim, and the Chilonim are perfectly capable of doing this by themselves.
“Perhaps the army could teach these bochrim to grow up a little and take responsibility instead of takin handouts from the government.”
Or perhaps it would teach them to live a debased, secular life. Is the slim benefits really worth taking that chance?July 24, 2012 3:14 am at 3:14 am #886861
im starting to feel persecuted! what did i miss in this one?
I was very well aware of the fact that the suggestion included restricting the enlistment to those who are not learning but this presents us with two issues.
The first being that absence of learning may not be enough of a reason to put a young boy into a potentially harmful for his spirituality situation.
The second being that the proposed draft made no such mention of segregating the learners from the bums, it was a universal draft and so this post is neither in support of or against the proposal.July 24, 2012 3:15 am at 3:15 am #886862chassidishY.U.typeMember
Chassidus should be introduced into the yeshiva system. They will no longer be hanging out in the coffee room. I’m not kidding.July 24, 2012 9:09 am at 9:09 am #886863chocandpatienceMember
Didn’t anyone read Infallible’s post?July 24, 2012 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #886864
Infallibles post becomes less relevant when we discuss the conscription of hundreds of thousands of bochurim, it is not an intrinsic problem with the army, its a problem for any bochur in an irreligious environment.
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