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Nearly every time i go out in Lakewood, there is always something someone does, that makes the Jewish people look bad… This happened at a pharmacy recently while waiting online, there was a frum guy in front of me, with a bluetooth piece, talking very loudly – the woman behind the countery says “next” and he walks up to the counter, but is still yaking away to “yanki” about his chavrusahs new baby and holds his finger up to the woman as if to say “ill be right with you” . after a minute, he ends his call and says “yes im picking up medicine for ****” – she gets the bag and says can you verify your address, he says “24 **** street.. she says “oh we have 25 *** street. he says ” well obviously i know where i live, so just give me my medicine im in a big rush!” “but we need you to verify the address that we have on file before we can release the medicine ” well i obviously know where i live, so obviously your systems are wrong” she was so flustered, she just gave him the medicine and he stormed out in a huff.
This is only 1 of many things that go on, and it it downright embarrassing for me as a Jew to see another Jew make the rest of us look bad. And people wonder why there is anti semitism towards the Jewish population. There is no excuse for such behavior. You are no better than a cockroach, when you treat another human being in such a crude manner!
When you wear your Kippa, or your black hat, or any other “frum” looking attire, you are representing the Jewish Nation in a whole. Just remember that the next time you leave your house, and the next time you open your mouth.
I will answer the same way as I answered on the topic regarding “dirty nation”. The scenario you described is no doubt a huge chillul h-m and I am disgusted! But I am equally disgusted that a supposedly frum person would right such l”h on all of klall yisroel like that. “No doubt they hate us”- Yuck! That is NOT why they hate us! I never knew there were so many self-hating jews!
I really wish this is ended right now because I think it is horrible how people bash Klall Yisroel. (By the way for my job a have to make a lot of phone calls to people all over the U.S. I would say at least 98% are goyim and almost 100% are not frum yidden. The way these people talk, at least some of them, you would be horrified. So don’t say that it is especially frum people who are like that. We are H”m’s children and I don’t think it gladdens Him to hear bad about His children!)
This also brings to mind a story about R’ Dishon. He was once asked to speak about the “ME generation”. He did not comment but when he got up to speak he said, I was asked to speak about the ME generation- “‘ME’ K’AMCHA YISROEL”!
It is one thing to be (rightfully so) embarrassed when a YID who should know better acts a certain way. It is quite another to whitewash all Jews of a location (in this case Lakewood) as behaving the same way. I am willing to bet, that had you been on line at a pharmacy in Walla Walla Washington, you would not have seen a yid cause a chillul Hashem. You were in Lakewood, NJ where I would venture a guess that 50% of the population are frum Yidden (it really is a guess, I have absolutely no idea). Yes, there are yidden who dont always act the way they should, but dont generalize their behavior and then to top it all off “no wonder THEY hate us”. Surely, there are some of “them” whose interaction with yidden is limited so scenes such as these cause them to form opinions, but it is not why many hate us.
Some people only see the good; and some people only see the bad.
jphone,
Thank you! While I’m sure not too many people will bother reading my looooong comment, hopefully yours they will and you really worded it well! It is horrible that frum yidden associate bad behavior to being FRUM. ich! If you believe in the Torah, how can you believe that people who learn it can be worse off than goyim!
My grandfather always says that the lowest yid is better than the best goy!
For every ONE story like this on the part of a Jew , there are about 1000 disgraceful incidents (even more reprehensible than this story) amongst Goyim.
Some people only see the good; and some people only see the bad.
Joseph, I am glad to see you finally changed your views of the Zionists.
Pashuteh, My views of the zionists are not mine. They are the Brisker Rovs, the Satmar Rebbes, and the Gedolei Yisroels. I cannot change what is not mine. My views are subjugated to those of the Torah leaders. If you have any questions or concerns regarding them, direct them to them rather than me.
It’s unfortunate but that’s why chillul hashem is one of the worst aveiros. It just takes one person, one incident, to cause so much everlasting damage to so many people.
Actually, can someone comment on what happened to me yesterday? I had my head stuffed in the closet doing some cleaning. someone was at the door pounding away, so I went running to answer. It was a meshulach, and he was on the telephone. And he held up his finger signaling to me that i should wait till he concluded his call. I was mystified and said to him incredulously “you talk on the phone while collecting Tzaddakah?” So he says, “well, i never know when i will recieve a call!” So I told him to come back to me when he is not so “busy”. He proceeded to his car (parked in my driveway, without my permission, blocking us in) and continued his talk for ten minutes until he went away. I know it was not right of me, but here it is on my day off and I have so much to do and the phone is RINGING off the hook for a billion different organizations, and a line of meshulachim is at the door pounding and ringing. and I do give something to everyone. but to come to my door with the cell phone to your ear?? Where are his manners? He is not one of the nebechs who come, but he is a talmid chochum who is in all the newspapers and i think it all got to his head. He should come back with an apology, in my opinion, but what does everyone in yeshiva land think of this, how would you react?
torahis1,
The topic would not be swept under the carpet if it would be presented in a respectable manner. Why be proud of being a Jew if being a Jew means being nasty, dirty, etc!
Being a Jew means being someone special! Some unfortunately do terrible things.
Now that that has been clarified, you can open a new forum to discuss the problem and everyone can share their views! I don’t think we should award yoshi with our opinion on the matter when it is discussed in such a disgusting way!
to shindy…were you trying to come or leave with your car while he was ‘blocking’ your driveway…doesnt sound so from your words, so he wasnt blocking nothing…
BS”D
Dan lekaf zechus. First of all, if the guy is there to pick up medication, he obviously isn’t feeling too well (and you never know what medication it was – could be that R”L he has a mental disorder of some type). Second, some people cannot tolerate the kind of incompetence that is rife now ever since underskilled clerks and poorly programmed computers took over from highly trained pharmacists.
Funny you mention pharmacies. I have only been on the receiving end of abuse when I quietly shop in chain pharmacies while wearing my usual “charedi” (semi-Chassidish) levush. That includes SuperPharm in E”Y (but not the supposedly anti-Semitic European country in which I now live).
Intelligent (?):
“My grandfather always says that the lowest yid is better than the best goy! “
Do you REALLY believe that?
What does it even mean to say “better”. Better at what? Do you mean better in the eyes of “HaShem” and if so, would you (or your grandfather) say that a drug-dealing contract killer who also deals in child porn, and is a Jew, is better than a goy who lives a moral, decent life?
Your comment does not live up to the standard of the name you chose for your user name.
Yussel
Member
Intelligent (?):
“My grandfather always says that the lowest yid is better than the best goy! “
Do you REALLY believe that?
What does it even mean to say “better”. Better at what? Do you mean better in the eyes of “HaShem” and if so, would you (or your grandfather) say that a drug-dealing contract killer who also deals in child porn, and is a Jew, is better than a goy who lives a moral, decent life?
Respectfully, the answer is yes, even though someone has sunk to the lowest level, as he is still Hashem’s child, vs. someone who is not, no matter how “good” of a person he is. You are correct that the non-Jew will get Olam Haba while the Jew may not, but Hashem loves his children no matter what, even if they have gone astray, and always hopes for them to do teshuva.
For the rest of the thread, who knows the circumstances to be able to judge?
“My grandfather always says that the lowest yid is better than the best goy! “
Do you REALLY believe that?
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Absolutely! Intelligent is 100% correct.
Yussel,
Firstly, my name is IntellEgent, not IntellIgent, so based on that you can decide if I live up to my username (LOL!)
Also, I was just repeating what my grandfather says. No I don’t really agree with it. He lived through Aushwitz, lost his whole family, and has a crooked nose due to a beating from the Nazis, so I don’t think you could blame him for saying that the worst Yid is better than the best Goy. Don’t even TRY to change his mind.
“Also, I was just repeating what my grandfather says. No I don’t really agree with it. He lived through Aushwitz, lost his whole family, and has a crooked nose due to a beating from the Nazis, so I don’t think you could blame him for saying that the worst Yid is better than the best Goy. Don’t even TRY to change his mind.”
He is far wiser than you and he is right. Precisely because he lived through Aushwitz, lost his whole family, and has a crooked nose due to a beating from the Nazis. Because YOU didn’t go through that, I don’t think you could be blamed for not seeing the truth.
Do you stand up every time he enters the room? You should.
Jent1150- the gentleman who was collecting should not park in people’s private driveways. he did indeed block us in! He should park on the street (I am rural so there is PLENTY of place to park on the street). He did block us in, as one of my kids had to go wait to use the car till his highness was finished, and he should not have been shmoozing on the phone in my drive way. My husband has always given him very nice contributions, but guess what, not this time till I get an apology. If he calls I will tell him how I feel in a respectful way. He should act like a ben Torah and treat others with respect. Especially if he wants a contribution!!!
Yoshi,
I don’t think that would make a very big kiddush h-m if that’s what you would do. Ever heard the expression, change yourself and you can change the world…
Hatzlocha Rabba!
Yoshi, I never went out to tell him to move his vehicle, we just waited. My point of this post I guess is to share what happened to me. This sunday I will shut the ringer on the phone when i get up (my kids and friends can call my cell) and I will not open the door for anyone. I am being harrassed by these pompous and rude meshulachim. It’s not right what they are doing. If they have no manners then I don’t trust them and for all I know they are pocketing the money for themselves.
intellegent: my apologies
Gavra at work/Joseph: Just so I understand you correctly. A Jew who sexually abuses little children/deals drugs/kills for money, etc. is loved by God more than a non-Jew who lives a decent, moral life?
Yussel,
Absolutely. A Yid can always do teshuva.
If YOUR CHILD did one of those things you mention, would you love YOUR CHILD less than some Goy? Hashem does no less.
A goy is just a pruste goy.
Yussel:
If (C”V, Lo Alaynu) someone had a child that was like that (drugs, murder, etc.), they would (and should) still be loved by their parents, who would always hope they would do teshuva. They would be loved by their parents more than a stranger.
Hakadosh Baruch Hu is our father. He loves us and is always hoping for us to return, no matter how far we have strayed.
As I did state, the non-jew will get rewarded (Olam Haba) for following the Sheva Mitzvos of Beni Noach and the Jew (if he does not do Teshuva) will be punished.
Joseph and Gavra:
First, the goy is also a child of Hashem.
Second: Let me put the question another way. Forget for a moment about which person is loved more by HaShem.
Would you rather have a pedophile, drug dealing killer who is a Jew as your next-door neighbor, or a moral, decent non-jew?
Moral non jew (if those were the only choices). But that was not the original question.
Teiere Yussele,
The goy is NO child of Hashem. That distinction is reserved for Bnei Yisroel.
Joseph, what you are saying is wrong and a chillul hashem. We have a road map which teaches us how to act, called the Torah. The Torah values anivus, as our Avos said Anochi tolaas vlo ish (I am a worm, and not a man), and Anochi afar vaefer (I am dirt and ashes). The second we do not act like our road map calls for and like our avos did, and if we become gaivadig, then neveilah tova heimenu. What you are saying is pure arrogance and racism. All the nations believe that their religion makes them better than everybody else. The chiddush of Judaism is that we believe that any fine non-Jew can become as holy as the kohen gadol, as the Rambam says.
gavra_at_work, Yussel,
The point is not who H-m loves more. The point is that we should not be degrading all of Klall Yisroel because one (or more) person does bad. Yes, that is why there is a huge issure of Chillul H-m, but that does not mean WE (as Jews) should think that way!
Joseph,
You are not correct. I suggest you take a look at some of the writings of Rav S.R. Hirsch such as letter #7 of the nineteen letters.
Pashuteh Yid, A chutzpa for you to call the Gedolim who said, what I merely repeated, a chillul hashem. THAT is precisely the blueprint the Torah guides us to. Refuah Shelamo.
Yussele Teiere,
I’ve read the 19 letters. And everything I said above is 100% Min HaTorah, as described by the Gedolim of this and previous generations. Nothing is my own chiddushim.
pashte yid, yes we have road map that guides the problem with you is your blungenig in this vast road map you dont know were to turn east to west..you apply hterim where its not applicable and aussr where it is muter..throuout you allway applie YOUR HETERIM TO OIVRY TOIREH BUT WHEN COMEs TO SHOIMREI TORAH…YOU KNOW, THIS ROAD MAP ONE OF THE STREETS PROCLAIMS ‘OIZVEI TORAH YEHALLEAH RASHA VSHOIMREI TORAH YISGERU BOM’ YOU ARE OF THE FORMER
AY AY AY, you guys are making a real chilul Hashem, stop all this bantering!
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