May 3, 2020 9:32 pm at 9:32 pm #1856502
There are three probabilities as to the origination of the Wuhan Coronavirus:
1) Intentional creation and/or release by Chinese persons or government as a bioterror weapon.
2) Accidental public release by the Wuhan laboratory of either scientific or experiential virus.
3) Bat infected food sold at the Wuhan meat market.
Number one seems the least likely possibility but cannot be ruled out.
Number two is what many are now arguing is the most likely probability.
Number three is the Chinese Communist Party version of events.May 3, 2020 10:32 pm at 10:32 pm #1856509bsharg2Participant
For many years now, the lab workers at the Wuhan Laboratory have been taking the experimental animals from the lab (the animals who are sick, etc because they are being used for experiments), and they have been selling those animals as food at the wet market to make extra money.
There’s a major lack of oversight at Chinese labs, factories and all over China which is why their products are cheap and basically garbage. So these lab workers are easily able to smuggle the lab animals out and sell them as food.May 4, 2020 12:14 am at 12:14 am #1856588NOYBParticipant
I can’t speak to number 2 or 3 (I believe it was probably number 2 though), but I think that we can definitively rule out that this was an intentionally released bioweapon. Firstly, scientists can tell when a virus is natural or artificial. Everyone has been saying that this virus looks natural. Secondly, this is a relatively benign virus. It spreads well, but the death rate is very low. If it were an intentionally created bio-weapon, it would be killing a lot more people. No one wants to invent an artillery shell that covers a very small area when it explodes, and no one wants to create a virus that barely kills anyone (compared to things like anthrax and the black death).May 4, 2020 3:17 am at 3:17 am #1856612
Do not ask me, I have no idea. Three other possibilities, that I came across at some point.
4) From eating stray dogs.
5) Humans encountered bats in caves outside Wuhan.
6) It came from outside China in October.
It gets weirder.May 4, 2020 7:53 am at 7:53 am #1856624Someone in MonseyParticipant
Regarding #1, that this could have been a bio-weapon, it’s well-established that the Wuhan Instituite of Virology is under the auspices of the Chinese military. While this virus may not be a complete bio-weapon, it may not be natural. Although both Western intelligence and scientists have said this is a naturally occurring virus, there is some evidence that it’s not. Watch Joshua Phillips’, of the Epoch Times, documentary on the virus’ origins for investigation of this point; it can be found on youtube. Whether this was or wasn’t part of a Chinese bio-weapons program, it seems obvious its release was accidental.May 4, 2020 10:00 am at 10:00 am #1856670
Epoch Times?! Please.
The idea that it’s a bioweapon is crazy, and I believe the reason it has gained currency is that the Chinese are paying people to raise it whenever someone mentions the — very plausible — possibility that it’s a natural virus that got out of the lab. By immediately jumping from #2 to #1, the two are conflated in people’s minds, and are thus both rejected as paranoid nonsense. Many mainstream reporters have been doing this, ridiculing any suggestion that it came from a lab by pretending that the person must think it’s a bioweapon, and only crazy people would think that. This helps China, so the most likely reason why someone would do it is because they’re getting paid.May 4, 2020 10:00 am at 10:00 am #1856671
As far as I know #2 and #3 are equally plausible, and there is no evidence for one over the other. Many web sites claim that #3 can be ruled out because there are no horseshoe bats within hundreds of miles of Wuhan, and they are not sold at the wet market. However all of these go back ton one single report, purportedly by someone in China, that made this claim. I know of no way to verify it, so one shouldn’t put too much trust in it.May 4, 2020 11:24 am at 11:24 am #1856701Someone in MonseyParticipant
To dismiss the bio-weapon theory out-of-hand is to be blind to the reality of the CCP. They are horrendously evil, at least equal to the Soviet Union in their monstrosity. They’re amoral and quite capable of anything. Human life is meaningless to them, so, unless you have inside knowledge of CCP policy, I’d be less quick to exonerate them.
Regarding the specific, Epoch Times video, presumably you’re voicing the concern that they’re funded by an anti-CCP group. While that’s certainly true, that doesn’t automatically mean the journalism in question is therefore biased and/or inaccurate. I suggest looking at the documentary and deciding for yourself. In my opinion, it’s both professional and well-researched.May 4, 2020 11:44 am at 11:44 am #1856735QuayboardwarriorParticipant
Pompeo talks of enormous evidence the virus originated in a lab, but so far has provided for none.
Meanwhile, there are countless studies that conclude otherwise. For example See https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9May 4, 2020 11:44 am at 11:44 am #1856738
SiM -“To dismiss the bio-weapon theory out-of-hand is to be blind to the reality of the CCP”
Enough with the Conspiracy Theories!
If the Chinese wants a new weapon – let them do a Space Weapon.
A virus isn’t a good choice, esp. since there’s Anthax & others.May 4, 2020 11:44 am at 11:44 am #1856742
bsharg2 -“#2 For many years now, the lab workers at the Wuhan Laboratory have been taking the experimental animals from the lab (the animals who are sick, etc because they are being used for experiments), and they have been selling those animals as food at the wet market to make extra money”
So that makes it #2 & 3, NOT Just #2!May 4, 2020 12:37 pm at 12:37 pm #1856755
Whether it’s 1,2 or 3 to not inform the world and to send out people directly whole they knew this was going on (and to be “shocked” that Israel banned travel from China from the get go) is practically sinister and should be held accountableMay 4, 2020 12:37 pm at 12:37 pm #1856756Reb EliezerParticipant
Intentional release does not make any sense. They will not infect themselves intentionally.May 4, 2020 12:37 pm at 12:37 pm #1856769
Millhouse -“Many web sites claim that #3 can be ruled out because there are no horseshoe bats within hundreds of miles of Wuhan, and they are not sold at the wet market”
It’s called FAKE NEWS!
The reason the Mainstream News have become Like the Enquire Tabloid, because of the Dumbing Down of Americans.
I went on a Net Search about the origins a few weeks ago.
There are chinese researchers that state the Wet market sells Snakes, Civets & Pangolins.
They claim – First the bats have it and they Transfered the Virus to these animals. The Humans got it by eating these Animals!May 4, 2020 12:37 pm at 12:37 pm #1856770GadolhadorahParticipant
More discussion and demonizing of China=Less discussion of Trump Screwups….Republicans are smart to advise all their candidates to keep talking about “China” (as distinct from the President’s BBF President Xi) and hand out free samples of lysol at their campaign events.May 4, 2020 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #1856829
GH -“More discussion and demonizing of China=Less discussion of Trump Screwups….Republicans are smart to advise all their candidates to keep talking about “China” (as distinct from the President’s BBF President Xi) and hand out free samples of lysol at their campaign events.”
More discussion of Trump Screwups = Less discussion of Biden Screwups…..Republicans are smart to advise all their candidates to keep talking about how Demoncrats have Dismembered our Healthcare system!
Not Just Obamacare with VP Biden, but they started under Clinton with Managed Care to save e/o $.
Also, we should hand out Videos of Tara Reade at our campaign events!May 4, 2020 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #1856815
Anyways, I for one would rather take Lysol than the summonses (even jail time) the Democrats are dishing outMay 5, 2020 8:38 am at 8:38 am #1857077
This is the best way to discuss conspiracies! Why ruin it with politics?
There never was a theory that someone got it from a bat at the wet market. The pangolin was suspect number one.
Anthrax is not a good candidate as a stealth bio weapon. it is not known for human to human transmission to occur. There is a reliable vaccine.
Police give out summonses, they are not political. Poor men in blue, they serve as Democrats and die as Republicans.
Bottom line – The sequencing of the coronavirus genomes will tell the story. Wait 3 years.May 5, 2020 11:25 am at 11:25 am #1857202
“Police give out summonses, they are not political. Poor men in blue, they serve as Democrats and die as Republicans.“
My dear n0mesorah,
I didn’t know police officers across the country were giving summonses 🙄
It’s the police officers that are following the directive of the Democrat governors/mayors who give summonses, it’s not their idea they’re just doing their job and they don’t want to do it!
I refer you to a Yeshiva world article from yesterdayMay 5, 2020 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #1857390Yserbius123Participant
Another use and I came up with idea a few weeks ago to combat a major issue on CR. There are liars and trolls here and in the midst of the pandemic, they cannot be allowed to have their dangerous poisonous tongues roll free. So I propose we put into action what was done on the other thread:
Ignore @JosephMay 5, 2020 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #1857401
The officers have discretion how to react. They are on the streets and usually know what they are dealing with. If your point is that they are blindly following the Governor I suggest you are blindly following the anti-Governor. The quote from the article is demanding that the Mayor should back the police for doing their job. You could explain the Mayor to me. You seem to have aproblem with the Governors doing theirs.May 5, 2020 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #1857430
NOmesorah -“Dear Health,
Anthrax is not a good candidate as a stealth bio weapon. it is not known for human to human transmission to occur. There is a reliable vaccine.”
You don’t need Human-Human contact.
Actually Covid 19 is NOT a good Bio-weapon. The Death rate is usually 1-3%.
Not a good weapon to kill alot of people!
OTOH, Anthrax is very good.
One guy just used it in 2001.
Don’t you think the Whole Chinese Gov. could do better than one Guy?
They could kill Millions of people very quickly, before any vaccine would be given!
“The 2001 anthrax attacks, also known as Amerithrax from its FBI case name, occurred in the United States over the course of several weeks beginning on September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 terrorist attacks. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and to Democratic Senators Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy, killing five people and infecting 17 others.”May 5, 2020 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #1857431
The fact is that the childish fighting between Gov. Cuomo and Mayor de Blasio over “who is the boss” (something that they’ve been acting like adolescents for the last 5 years over) caused a delay in both the closing of the schools and delayed the stay at home orders, causing the spread of the virus.May 5, 2020 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #1857494Reb EliezerParticipant
Joseph, what did the president’s dismissal of the effect of the virus for around two months do?May 6, 2020 11:41 am at 11:41 am #1857673
RE, the President was accurately reflecting what was known at the time. He was on top of the situation since January, while his critics were completely ignoring it. He set his task force into place and announced it at the State of the Union speech, while Pelosi threw a tantrum and claimed the whole speech was garbage and needed to be ripped up. Then the Democrats, while still dismissing it and encouraging people to mingle and to go to densely concentrated places, simultaneously contradicted themselves by grossly exaggerating the danger (compared to what was then known) so they could accuse the President of neglecting it. Meanwhile he was taking the most measured and calm approach that the information available warranted.
One problem was that the state of information early on was bad, because the Chinese deliberately hid what they knew, and lied to the world, via their puppet the WHO. So there was no way for anyone outside China to know what was really going on.May 12, 2020 6:19 pm at 6:19 pm #1860053charliehallParticipant
“childish fighting between Gov. Cuomo and Mayor de Blasio over “who is the boss””
NYC Mayors and NY Governors have been fighting for over a century. Franklin Roosevelt actually removed the crooked Mayor James Walker from office while he was running for President; FDR had been fearlessly taking on Tammany Hall since his first year in the NY legislature back in 1911.
The real problem was that Trump was STILL telling people that there was nothing to worry about until the day before Cuomo and De Blasio agreed to shut down. And now Trump is telling people to open up too soon.May 12, 2020 9:40 pm at 9:40 pm #1860075GadolhadorahParticipant
The three top experts on the Trumpkopf’s Virus Task Force testified today before a Senate Committee whose Republicans wanted to hype his “Reopen Parade”. Instead, they calmly and professionally refuted his lies about “having prevailed”, the virus “will be gone”, the reopening is a “great success” etc. Once they are off the 5:00 PM nightly “news conference” stage with him, they find their voices and integrity. When Senators asked the director of CDC as to when the detailed “ropening guidelines would be publicly released” he slinked down in his chair and nearly disappeared off the computer screen (Note: He was testifying remotely because he was exposed to the virus at the White House) . Even the Republicans noted that the reopening would move more quickly if businesses had some guidelines to rely upon to insulate themselves from litigation. Instead, he mumbled something about “soon” but would not give a timeline for fear of angering the Trumpkopf. Perhaps they are tired of walking like the clowns at the end of the Circus Parade leaning up after the Elephants.
Ultimately, the question is how many lives is the Trumpkopf willing to lose to push up the stock market before the election. There is plenty of blame to go around on all sides, but this mindless rush to “reopen at any cost” is contrary to his own guidelines. (17 of the 23 states that have begun to reopen did NOT meet the President’s own criteria of 2 weeks of declining infection rates etc. but the Trumpkopf mindlessly cheers them on).May 24, 2020 8:33 am at 8:33 am #1863914charliehallParticipant
“the Democrats, while still dismissing it”
Schumer publicly called for action on January 26, Biden on January 27, and Warren in January 28. Biden and Warren were quite specific on things that needed to be done. Trump continued to dismiss the importance of the pandemic until March 15, preventing any testing until late February, and lying about what US intelligence agencies had discovered. Two Republicans in the US Senate had that information as well and engaged in insider trading based on a briefing from the Trump Administration. Oh, and Trump continued to praise Xi Jinping even as late as March 24.May 24, 2020 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #1863992
American scientists who were involved with that lab, say that this particular coronavirus was unknown. Though they knew of about 50 others that may jump to humans.May 24, 2020 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm #1864168
Wuhan lab admits to having 3 strains of bat coronavirus on-site
The Wuhan Institute for Virology has admitted to having three live strains of bat coronavirus on-site, though the lab insists that none are the source of the current coronavirus pandemic, AFP reported.
The lab’s director, Wang Yanyi, said in an interview aired Saturday that the lab has “isolated and obtained some coronaviruses from bats” since 2004, AFP reported…May 24, 2020 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #1864277
It is known that there were coronaviruses there. The question is if this one was one of them. The scientists claimed no knowledge of it.May 25, 2021 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #1977301
Well who was right that it originated in a lab?
I think it was Trump?
No, couldn’t be 🙄
Watch, he could be proven right about the election tooMay 25, 2021 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #1977359
The lab leak theory was told to Trump. The election steal was told by Trump. I would venture that Trump’s statements are the election cover up.
But more to the point. The lab theory is still a long way from proven. A new piece of the puzzle came this week, That points to the lab. It also contradicts some other pieces of the lab theory. There is still a lot to uncover. And we may never know.
What I do know is that some politicians who think of themselves as very important, are now going to fight over if something Trump said with mild confidence is true or false. Never mind that he said he got it from confidential intelligence reports that he was not supposed to make public. Or that he does not understand the reliability of the various reports.May 25, 2021 8:14 pm at 8:14 pm #1977385
And never mind that it was over a year ago. Like “Trump was right about some random statement last year!” “No, he was wrong at the time even if it is true!”
Zzz..May 25, 2021 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #1977410Yserbius123Participant
I’ll admit, I was very skeptical of the theory that the virus had origins in the lab as a lot of the original reports came from some very questionable and inconsistent sources. But the latest batch of studies made me change my mind. That doesn’t mean I think it’s a bio-weapon that got loose. I just think that there’s a possibility that they were studying a natural virus, cross bred it with a different virus, and it accidentally got out.May 25, 2021 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #1977418
Why do you hate Trump so much, what did he do to you?
I can see it in your writingMay 25, 2021 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #1977424Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
>> That doesn’t mean I think it’s a bio-weapon that got loose
At this point, it is of historical interest how Chinese started this. The question is now that the capability is clear, how it will be used in the future.May 25, 2021 11:50 pm at 11:50 pm #1977443
The capability was clear decades ago. And by the way, natural spillover is still the most sensible theory. It happens every couple of months. Nature can overtake civilization at any time.May 26, 2021 1:30 am at 1:30 am #1977463torahvaluesoverpartyParticipant
N0mesorah “The lab leak theory was told to trump”-I’m pretty sure that wasn’t the mainstream narrative a year ago when Trump suggested it. In fact he was demonized for doing so. And if you think this just about “some random statement trump said a year ago”, you haven’t been paying too much attention to politics since trump entered the political arena 6yrs ago. This is yet another time Trump said/did something, was beat upon by the mainstream media, only to be proven right later on.May 26, 2021 2:58 am at 2:58 am #1977474ShtarkButRelatableParticipant
I think the democrats did it. Think about it its the classic lib move to do whatever it takes to get trump out of office. TDS. I would never trust a democrat as far as I can throw themMay 26, 2021 9:59 am at 9:59 am #1977530ujmParticipant
With President Trump proven correct, yet again on another issue the leftists mocked him for, or certainly now proven incorrect that those denying the origination of the Wuhan Coronavirus was from a Chinese lab, will the media and their leftist politician supporters apologize? Don’t count on them doing the right thing.May 26, 2021 10:00 am at 10:00 am #1977537
What you posted is definitely the narrative. I’m just pointing out a few things.
1. It still is not the most likely scenario.
2. It was weird that he said it. It had already been reported by both China groups. What is there to gain by publicising that the U. S. has confidential reports on it.
3. This last bit that just became public, may have been what Trump read in the report a year ago. It does not mean he was onto something.
4. Trump would have had a lot more success had he ignored the media a little, once he made it into office. Almost every politician manages to do that.
5. He was not beat up that much about it. The issue was why could he not focus on the job in front of him. It was very weird.
6. That this virus was ever in the lab, is still far from proven.
7. We may never know. Or it could take a hundred years.May 26, 2021 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #1977799Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
>> The capability was clear decades ago
that there are viruses around. But not that you can lock the whole world with it. C19 achieved remarkable success in airborne propagation, pre-symptomatic infection, attacking multiple systems and, according to some research, ways to fool immune system (this explain pre-symptomatic – C19 starts multiplying while preventing immune system from working).May 26, 2021 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #1977846
These are all known to occur throughout nature. And whey are known to occur simultaneously as well. All these specifics have been observed and studied at length. Except for the last one. Which has – until recently, only been appreciated with HIV. The world has increased it’s knowledge of viruses, maybe a hundred fold in the last year.
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