July 7, 2011 3:23 am at 3:23 am #597832rebbi1Participant
Does anyone have any knowledge about Chinese medicine? Does it really work, and are there specific things to stay away from?July 7, 2011 3:52 am at 3:52 am #785312Derech HaMelechMember
yankdownunder: Of course it does mate. I know plenty of tips for you. What do you want to know about?
Health: There is no medical evidence supporting the efficacy of homeopathic/aternative medicine.July 7, 2011 9:07 am at 9:07 am #785313MichaelCMember
Be aware–some ‘New Age Medicine’ can be Avodah Zorah–this was addressed in the Mispacha Magazine Shavous issue–ask your Rov before using Chinese medicine’s that relies on tapping into ‘force fields’ around the person.July 7, 2011 9:13 am at 9:13 am #785314
DH -“Health: There is no medical evidence supporting the efficacy of homeopathic/aternative medicine.”
Funny, aren’t you? So you think you know me?
Wrong! Homeopathy doesn’t work, but some alternative (not homeopathy) does.July 7, 2011 9:16 am at 9:16 am #785315
rebbi1 – Chinese medicine is extremely broad. You need to be more specific. I want to take/do this for this disease/disorder.July 7, 2011 1:49 pm at 1:49 pm #785316HaLeiViParticipant
Chinese medicin is not homeopathy. What I can say about it is to make sure you go to someone that actually studied it. The best choice is a medically trained doctor, who would know when to apply it and when it is a real medical issue. There are Chinese medicin associations that can tell you about real, trained, practitioners.July 7, 2011 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #785317WIYMember
There’s plenty info on google. Just avoid anything dealing with “energy” type of healing because they all involve kochos hatumah.July 7, 2011 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #785318
“Just avoid anything dealing with “energy” type of healing because they all involve kochos hatumah.”
And I know s/o “frum” who practices it and “frum” people go to her!July 7, 2011 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #785319bptParticipant
Works fine. If you’re Chinese.
Otherwise, stay far away.July 7, 2011 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #785320tzippiMember
Do you mind sharing what condition this is for?July 7, 2011 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #785321Derech HaMelechMember
So you think you know me?
I don’t think I know you. But this is not the first thread of this type. Nor is it the first time you’ve weighed in on an alternative medicine thread.July 7, 2011 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #785322rebbi1Participant
Ok to be more specific – high blood pressure. I was told that Chinese Med has a good success rate for getting it under control and not having to take med for the rest of my life.July 7, 2011 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #785323twistedParticipant
Rebbi: some herbs and seeds work for some people. garlic, celery, ezov ( the israili zaater, sometimes marketed as “turkish oregano”, rosemary. Some people can benefit from raw chochalte or just the roasted seed, and the big new now is beets. The bacteria at the back of the tongue convert the beet juice to something that drops the pressure in an hour or two, just that alcohol( and mouthwash) temporarily wipe out the bacteria colony. Hawthorne berries open up the coronary arteries, and thus increase volume and drop pressure. This has been used for heart disease for a real long time. The trouble is the experimentation and you must be careful. I did hawthorne while I was taking regular med( a beta blocker) and at one time got tingling in the extremities, likely from a hypo incident.July 10, 2011 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #785324
rebbi1 -“Ok to be more specific – high blood pressure. I was told that Chinese Med has a good success rate for getting it under control and not having to take med for the rest of my life.”
To be honest with you, it really depends on how high. If your talking between 140 -160, then perhaps things besides meds will work. Besides herbs and vitamins, people try biofeedback, diet, weight loss, amongst other things. Google – Mother’s nature on Hypertension/High Blood Pressure for more info.
But, if you’re above 160, it’s unlikely anything besides meds will get you down where you need to be. This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try it, but you have to go on meds first. If after you’re on meds and the other stuff brings you down below 120, then you can slowly wean off the meds! Keep in mind anything you do for your BP will be for the rest of your life, not just meds.
Sometimes it’s hard to do something that you’ll have to do forever, but in this case it’s lifesaving!July 10, 2011 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #785325am yisrael chaiParticipant
“There is no medical evidence supporting the efficacy of homeopathic/aternative medicine.”
There’s quite a bit of evidence supporting chiropractics.
Dr. Ronald Pero (chief of cancer prevention research) in 1975 measured 107 people who received long term chiropractic care. These patients had a 200% greater immune competence than those without chiropractic care. They also showed a 400% greater immune competence than thoe ith the machla or other serious disease.
There have been other supporting studies on this topic since then, to the extent that standard health insurance carriers have somewhat modified their stance from originally not covering any alternative health care.July 10, 2011 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #785326minyan galMember
It depends on the condition being treated, your current medical history, your personal belief system and scientifically documented studies. For instance, chiropractic – I wouldn’t go near it with a ten foot pole. It doesn’t mean that it doesn’t help a lot of people, but it is definitely not for me. I don’t believe in it (particularly when many chiros claim that they can cure internal ailments such as gall bladder disease and allergies with spinal manipulation) so I would not get optimum results. I also have severe osteoporosis, so I could easily fracture during a manipulation. There have also been cases of people having strokes during neck manipulations. On the other hand, I have a high regard for acupuncture, which many people may believe is narishkeit. So…..do your homework carefully and definitely beware of any roots or herbs without first discussing it with a pharmacist or doctor. You could have a severe interaction with one of your prescription medications.July 10, 2011 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #785327am yisrael chaiParticipant
You can choose a chiropractor who does not use manipulation in treatment.
I also did not use to believe in it as my training is in standard Western methodology.
Experience has changed my mind.July 10, 2011 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #785328minyan galMember
am yisrael chai – In Canada, that is all that the chiros do – manipulation. What other treatments do the American chiros do? If there were another chiro treatment available, I might consider it – after researching it, as my back is in terrible condition with 4 separate problems – each of which can be incapacitating on its own.July 11, 2011 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #785329i love coffeParticipant
“Just avoid anything dealing with “energy” type of healing because they all involve kochos hatumah.”
You are right. The energy healing is NOT kosher. BUT, in Israel there is such a thing as Jewish Energy Healing by Rabbi Bar-Ami Ben-Zion. This one IS kosher. It is the “OHR-LEV” system of natural healing in accordance with the Kabalistic tradition symbols.
Health- I hope this answers your question.July 11, 2011 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #785330
i love coffe – As much as I would like to “Dan” these people “L’caf zecus”, somehow I get the feeling this lady knows no Kabbalah!July 11, 2011 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #785331
am yisrael chai – I find it extremely amusing that you’re commenting/arguing on a comment that’s a figment of someone’s imagination! Noone ever said that comment! 🙂July 11, 2011 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #785332i love coffeParticipant
Health- You should probably ask her or find out where she learnt to do energy healing. Are these women who go to her aware that they need to be careful and not just go to some random person who claims she can do “energy healing”?July 11, 2011 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #785333
i love coffe -I’m not that interested. If s/o wants to go to her, they have to find out whether she’s Kosher or not.July 12, 2011 7:47 am at 7:47 am #785334yankdownunderMember
rebbi 1 I have a question why do you feel Chinese Medicine would help your High Blood Pressure? I am probably one of the few Posters in the CR that actually went to a Chinese Herbalist. This particular shop had Jars and a Filing Cabinet full of Medicinal Roots, Herbs, Animal Parts and more this was at least twenty five years ago. The Chinese Herbalist was an Acupuncturist, also a Massage Therapist who used glass cups as part of the treatment. This particular Chinese Herbalist (at least this one did) examined by looking at the Tongue and feeling the Pulse. According to Chinese Medicine the color and coating on the Tongue as well as ones pulse reveal the state of ones physical health. The Organs are diagnosed as either being hot or cold. After being examined the Herbalists wife used a hanging scale and carefully emptied the contents from many Medicinal Herbs in jars, and filing cabinets and poured onto both sides of the hanging scale. When the desired weight of measured Medicine was right then it was emptied into a Brown Paper Bag. I was told to boil the contents of the bag into a pot, turn the heat off and drink. Many problems here Kashrus Kashrus Kashrus. This was a time just before I became a BT, so I was not so careful about many things. rebbi 1 I would suggest you consider making a change in altering your blood pressure and any other health concerns by making changes in your diet what you put into your mouth and eat. The diet I have been using recently is called the Alkaline Diet. If you google Alkaline/Acidic Food List you will get an idea what I mean. 70-80% Alkaline Foods and 20-30& Acidic Foods is ideal, but the main thing is to eat more Alkaline than Acidic Foods. The theory being that many health problems are caused by eating many foods that are Acidic and very little Alkaline Foods. Refer to the google list of Alkaline/Acidic Foods for clarification. I am using this simple free (does not cost anything to copy) list and use in my situation to lose weight. I have lost at least 10 pounds so far with an additional 30 pounds to go. I have read that one can purchase from a Pharmacy/Chemist Litmus Paper to test ones Saliva color. Having a Saliva Color close to an Alkaline Color is best. This diet may be help your blood pressure stabalize. The first thing to do is to be examined by your PCP. and suggest about using the diet for regulating blood pressure. Good luck!July 12, 2011 12:37 pm at 12:37 pm #785335HaLeiViParticipant
Avoda Zara is not something that happens to you. The Gemara is very specific about what connot be done because of Avoda Zara. Getting healed is at worst a problem of causing you to believe in the healer’s faith. If the healer doesn’t profess any particular belief, what’s the problem. I find that people yell “Avoda Zara” because the have a hard time believing it in the first place. What would you say about wearing the tooth of a fox.
Kishuf is the same. You can not be doing Kishuf without realizing it. What is wrong with the belief that there is a flow of Chi that has to be cleared, or that a correct thought pattern can be channelled telepathically, or that one Mazal can influence another?
I’m sure the next argument is that it takes away from Emuna. Being that I never heard that complaint with regards to going to a normal doctor, I don’t know why it would apply here, if not for the fact that you aren’t open to the whole concept in the first place.
For the record, I never went to a non mainstream doctor and I an not one myself. I am just open minded enough not to reject anything I hadn’t seen, offhand.July 12, 2011 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #785336
HaLeiVi – I’ve seen a letter from A Big Poisek, I think it was R. Elyashiv, that this type of healing is Ossur. I don’t know enough about “energy healing”, to argue the exact points, but I don’t think you are on the caliber to argue with this Psak.July 12, 2011 6:35 pm at 6:35 pm #785337hudiParticipant
TCM includes about herbal remedies, accupuncture, accupressure, moxibustion, cupping, qui gong (exercise patterns).
Anything that goes into your mouth, should be run by your doctor.
Accupuncture is pretty safe, just make sure you go to a certified person, an MD is best. And make sure the needles are unused and clean.
Cupping is very dangerous, you can get 2nd or 3rd degree burns from it.
There was an article in a Mishpacha supplement – i think the kolmus from pesach – about the avoda zara nature about some of these alternative therapies. Best to be 100% sure about them. Quigong might be under this category.July 12, 2011 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #785338zahavasdadParticipant
Buying a herb at a chinese herbalist is really no differnet than buying a drug a drugstore. The only difference is at the drug Store the herb is packaged nicely and the drug is approved by the FDA as a cure.
The stuff at the chinese herbalist you have to rely upon what the person behind the counter tells you, but its not gurateed because the FDA did not approve it.
There is definalty proof that some alternative medicine works (Some of it may be the placebo affect person thinks stuff works so it actually works)July 13, 2011 5:39 am at 5:39 am #785339yankdownunderMember
Hudi I actually had Cupping done many years ago and did I did not get a seious 2nd or 3rd degree burn. I even had Moxibustion and I am still funtioning and Posting on YW. I think ones experience as far as being treated by an Alternative Doctor is dependent on the skill of the Alternative Doctor and not necessarily from the results from a Periodical. That being said I wish most Doctors were more knowledgeable about Wholistic Health and Diet and Nutrition, but usually this is not the case. When I see an Alopathic Doctor instead of advising me to use a Food, Plant, Essential Oil and more I am given a Prescription to take to and get filled from the local Pharmacy/Chemist. I realize that the majority of Doctors are generally not taught in Medical School (only as an elective course) about Diet/Nutrition and Wholistic Health including Natural Plant Medicines, Aromatherapy/Essential Oils and more. I do know of a Harvard Physcian living in EY who aprenticed in a Tibetan Pharmacy and learned about Acupuncture and other disciplines, but this is not the case of most Doctors who graduate from Medical School and who are licensed today. Therefore I BH know about Natural Things I can do so I can stay healthy, and I generally do not need the services of a Doctor to be healed. The Rambam (who authored a sefer on Plants that heal) was the personal Physcian of the Sultan of Egypt, he was a Master Herbalist and treated and precribed Plant Medicine and practical advice to his patients to stay healthy and well. I only mention the name of the Rambam as an example of respected Physcian who used Natural Plant Medicine to heal. Over nine hundred years ago there was no Pharmacy/Chemist to get medicine from. The father of Medicine said Let Food Be your Medicine and the converse is also true Let medicine be Your Food. How true is that statement today?
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