June 26, 2011 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #597634
How many posters are from CCJune 26, 2011 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #783780
43June 26, 2011 3:07 pm at 3:07 pm #783781
What exactly is the purpose of this thread? I can see this easily spiraling out of control. THis thread should be closed before many grievous sins are committed.June 26, 2011 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #783782
What’s wrong with a CC guy trying to figure out how many others are here? He didn’t ask for opinions on CC guys.June 26, 2011 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #783783
“What exactly is the purpose of this thread? I can see this easily spiraling out of control. This thread should be closed before many grievous sins are committed.”
The mods know what they are doing. Just bec some people have no self control damming their vitriolic phillipics, doesn’t mean let’s close everything that has the potential to “spiral out of control”, which would be basically everything.
I asked only bec one of the Roshei Yeshiva there said not to post on sites.June 26, 2011 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #783785real-briskerMember
klach – Oh, so you want to know who doesn’t listen to their RY?June 26, 2011 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #783786
I asked only bec one of the Roshei Yeshiva there said not to post on sites.
Well, they have more than one, don’t they? So do you know what the other ones say?June 26, 2011 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #783787
“What’s wrong with a CC guy trying to figure out how many others are here?”
“He didn’t ask for opinions on CC guys”
But that’s what it will inevitably become. Eizehu chacham haroeh es hanolad.June 26, 2011 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #783788
Well, they have more than one, don’t they? So do you know what the other ones say?
Do the R”Y’s disagree with each other on basic things?June 26, 2011 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #783789
Do the R”Y’s disagree with each other on basic things?
Posting on YW is basic?June 26, 2011 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #783790
What is basic if that isn’t?June 26, 2011 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #783791
What is basic if that isn’t?
Are you serious? How about how to live your life, how to serve Hashem, what type of family to raise, what sorts of schools to send your kids to, etc.
Whether to post on YW? That’s right in front of whether you should eat pizza.June 26, 2011 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #783792
Whether to post or not falls into the basic things you mentioned, like how to serve Hashem, etc.June 26, 2011 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #783793bombmaniacParticipant
CC and proud!June 26, 2011 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #783799
But that’s what it will inevitably become. Eizehu chacham haroeh es hanolad.
Any thread could degenerate that way (and many do, hopefully stopped my a moderator).June 26, 2011 4:58 pm at 4:58 pm #783806
In CC, they never ever ever accept any money from someone who wants a say in how they run things (they have suffered tremendously financially as a result).June 26, 2011 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #783807
Where I come from, whoever controls the money makes the decisions.
Since when is a Torah institution controlled by the money men rather than by the Torah men??June 26, 2011 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #783809
All the branches are a part of the main central Yeshiva. Anyone who has been to CC knows it is the most pashut thing in the world.June 26, 2011 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #783810
Since when is a Torah institution controlled by the money men rather than by the Torah men??
Since Herod remodeled the beis hamikdosh and built himself a huge building on the har habayis next to the beis hamikdosh to entertain in.June 26, 2011 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #783811
“Since when is a Torah institution controlled by the money men rather than by the Torah men?? “
Unfortunately, that is very often the case. Rav Dessler once got up to give a speechh to the baal habatim of the community where a new yeshiva was being started. He related a story that after the petirah of Rav Yisrael Salanter, someone asked his wife how it was like living withhim and she answered that all mili deshmaya were in his domain and all mili d’alma were in hers. Over time, she realized that to Rav Yisrael, all things were mili dishmaya. As you can probably guess, the speech wasn’t recieved too well.June 26, 2011 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #783812
Herod did wrong. Why would you use that rasha as an example to emulate?June 26, 2011 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #783815showerzingerMember
I’m in. Although I don’t know if I truly qualify since I didn’t do the whole 14yr program. But was in two branches an Queens.June 26, 2011 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #783816
How does the 14 year program work?June 26, 2011 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #783817
Who is Rabbi Niman?
Long-time maggid shiur in CC Queens.June 26, 2011 5:36 pm at 5:36 pm #783818
“I’m in. Although I don’t know if I truly qualify since I didn’t do the whole 14yr program. But was in two branches an Queens.”
CC is not only for those who do all 14 yrs. Even only a few can set you up for life in both hashkafa and in knowing how to learn.June 26, 2011 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #783819
“How does the 14 year program work?”
That’s a complex question.June 26, 2011 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #783820
showerzinger – what 2 branches were zocheh to have you?June 26, 2011 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #783821
How does the 14 year program work?
Kind of like the 12 step program, but they have 2 more at the end.June 26, 2011 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #783822double standardMember
Is this the Chofetz Chaim of Radin yeshiva in Monsey everyone is talking about? Because really, they have the true mesorah of the Chofetz Chaim.June 26, 2011 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #783823
What’s the 12 step program?June 26, 2011 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #783824
“How does the 14 year program work?”
That’s a complex question.
I will very patiently, and eagerly, read your (or anyone’s) answer.
what 2 branches were zocheh to have you?
Why must it be 2 branches?June 26, 2011 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #783825
Is this the Chofetz Chaim of Radin yeshiva in Monsey everyone is talking about? Because really, they have the true mesorah of the Chofetz Chaim.
How is their mesorah any more true than anyone elses?June 26, 2011 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #783826
Kind of like the 12 step program, but they have 2 more at the end.
This is what PAA was talkng about.June 26, 2011 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #783827
Kind of like the 12 step program, but they have 2 more at the end.
This is what PAA was talkng about.
PAA was talking about the 12 step program? What does he know about it?June 26, 2011 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #783828
“Is this the Chofetz Chaim of Radin yeshiva in Monsey everyone is talking about? Because really, they have the true mesorah of the Chofetz Chaim.”
No it’s not; and they do not either. Rav Dovid Leibowitz was the nephew of the CC – he learned with him for 9 hours a day and helped to write the mishnah berurah – he started the “national” CC, which has the real mesorah in learning from the CC’s yeshiva in Radin.
Rav Yaakov Kaminetzky ZT”L, when encouraging the yeshiva to open up a branch in Miami Beach, told Rabbi Bentzion Chait YBLC”T that The Rosh Hayeshiva, Rav Henoch Leibowitz ZT”L, and his father were the ONLY ones who ran a Yeshiva in the derech of Slabodka. Rav Ruderman ZT”L never claimed to be running a Slabodka-style yeshiva. Rav Aharon Kotler ZT”L, his focus on Torah “lishmah” as opposed to going out and making a difference in the world, and his kana’us were NOT Slabodka style. Rav Aharon ZT”L never claimed to be following the Slabodka style either. Rav Hutner ZT”L switched to Machshavah because he felt that Americans couldn’t handle mussar. Rav Kaminetzky ZT”L never headed a yeshiva- he was always an employee and was under someone else’s thumb. However, he spoke very approvingly about the fact that the yeshiva kept up the Slabodka Mesorah of mussar. In fact, he encouraged the yeshiva to open a branch in Miami despite the fact that a relative of his already had a yeshiva there! You can speak to Rabbi Bentzion Chait to verify this, or speak to one of Rav Kaminetzky’s sons
When Reb Dovid was not yet 20 years old, Rav Naftali testified that Reb Dovid was already a lamdan. During his time in Radin, he learned with his great-uncle the Chofetz Chaim, zt’l, as his chavrusah (study partner) while the Chofetz Chaim wrote the final part of the Mishnah Berurah and learned with him hilchos sukkah. Reb Dovid related to the rosh yeshiva, zt’l, that his learning seder with the Chofetz Chaim was from 9:00 a.m. until 9:00 p.m. each and every day.
In 1908, the Chofetz Chaim said to Reb Dovid, “You can learn; now go become a ba’al mussar,” and he sent him to the world-famous Torah leader, the Alter of Slabodka, zt’l. It was there that Reb Dovid found his rebbi for life. He became attached to the Alter, heart and soul, and became one of his closest talmidim. As a matter of fact, Reb Dovid once confided to the Rosh HaYeshiva, zt’l, that the Alter had wanted him to join the hanhalah of the yeshiva, but, for reasons that he didn’t explain, he demurred
The mashgiach of the yeshiva, HaRav Shmuel Niman, shlita, who came to the yeshiva in 1947 after hearing about the rosh yeshiva’s blatt shiur, said publicly in his sheloshim hesped of his rebbi of almost 60 years, that the two years that he spent in the blatt shiur were the best years of his life. (This from an individual who has been saying his own shiur for half a century). HaRav Dovid Chait, shlita, the rosh yeshiva of Yeshiva Chofetz Chaim in Eretz Yisrael, described it best when he said in his hesped of the rosh yeshiva, “The blatt shiur was not a shiur; it was a training ground for life.” HaRav Simcha Sheinberg from Yeshiva Torah Ohr related to the author that his father, the rosh yeshiva of Yeshiva Torah Ohr in Yerushalayim, HaRav Chaim Pinchas Sheinberg, shlita, was for more than 20 years the mashgiach in the yeshiva, and had originally sent his son to the Telz yeshiva in Cleveland for mesivta in order to keep him away from the many distractions so prevalent in the Lower East Side in the 40s and 50s, and he stayed there for five years. It was then that his father called him back to attend the rosh yeshiva’s blatt shiur. His father explained, “Just as Reb Dovid’s pilpul shiurim were classic, so too is Reb Henoch’s blatt shiur a classic; there is no other like it.”
Rav Leizer Yudel Finkel ZT”L told the rosh Hayeshiva ZT”L that Rav Dovid Leibowitz was the closest talmid of HIS father, the Alter ZT”L. Rav Leizer Yudel ZT”L is one who can make a substantive claim in this regard, and he did so.
The yeshiva does have a bekiyus seder where one is expected to cover ground. however, one can’t just quickly read an acharon and understand what he’s saying. The Maharsha and the Maharam wouldn’t write anythign that they didn’t go over in depth with their talmidim. Rav Yaakov Kaminetzky ZT”L approvingly described the yeshiva’s derech as the “derech Hamaharam Schiff”. You just can’t figure out the depth of the Maharam Schiff with a cursory reading. Just because it’s not written in the style of the Griz’ notebooks doesn’t mean it’s not there. Rav Kaminetzky ZT”L was the paragon of emes, and wouldn’t say a lie to placate the yeshiva of his old chavrusa. Rav yaakov Kaminetzky ZT”L also said that today’s Talmidim don’t have the proper respect for the words of the acharonim. As the acharonim are closer to Har Sinai than we are, it makes sense to be cautious when understanding their words. There is a reason Rabbi Akiva eiger didn’t just answer his kashyes with a “cheftza gavra” svara pulled out of a hat. His kashyas were based on emes, and sevaras pulled out of a hat which cannot be read into the gemara or rishon are just not emes.
Correct, emphasis on emes and on understanding the Torah of ones greater than you instead of varfing your own sevaras restrict your “creativity”. you Torah is then closer to emes instead of sheker. Emes is always restricting. Rav Shach came out with his famous kol koreh against iyun because, as he explained, bachurim fill up notebooks with their own sevaros at 18, and at 24 they realize that all of them are sheker. As they have no bekiyus they are left with nothing. If they do bekiyus they at least walk away with something emes. The Chofetz chaim style of iyun is designed to get around this problem- the stress is on emes, and what not to say, as opposed to filling up notebooks with “Toyrah”.
The connection between the yeshiva’s focus on mussar and the result of its products can’t be ignored. We describe Hashem as Rachum, Chanun, Gomeil Chasadim, Tov uMeitiv, etc. In other words, Hashem is the epitome of middos and mussar. How can anyone knock the yeshiva’s derech on this if it is producing tzelamei Elokim who emulate Hashem? Torah is supposed to teach us Daas torah- in other words, we are supposed to develop a kesher with Hashem and have our minds think more closely like Hashem’s than like mortals (Maharal, Nefesh Hachaim, etc). If Chofetz Chaim is producing such walking embodiments of Hashem’s derech of behavior, they must be closer to the emes than the velt chooses to admit.June 26, 2011 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #783829
He was saying that it usually takes a maximum of 12 steps for a thread to degenerate into L”H.June 26, 2011 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #783830
I know PAA personally. He was just trying to make fun of me.June 26, 2011 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #783831
This thread was pretty docile by CR standards. . .
Well, I had some funny things to say (from on high), but us mods have to control ourselves 🙂 -95June 26, 2011 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #783832
Which is older, CC Monsey or CC Queens? And what is the relationship between the two?June 26, 2011 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #783833
Which is older, CC Monsey or CC Queens? And what is the relationship between the two?
They’re married. Welcome to NY.June 26, 2011 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #783834
CC Monsey has no shaychos.June 26, 2011 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #783835
CC Queens was started in 1934June 26, 2011 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #783836
When was CC Monsey started (and by whom)?June 26, 2011 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #783837showerzingerMember
WITS and PTIJune 26, 2011 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #783838
Huh?June 26, 2011 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #783839
WITS and PTI
How is Pittsburgh Technical a CC branch?June 26, 2011 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #783840
Vancouver and WITS? Interesting combination.June 26, 2011 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #783841
To correct all misinterpretations:
I was not talking about the 12 step program. When Daas Yachid said “This is what PAA was talkng about.” he was not referring to the 12 swtep pogram. He was referring to the fact that the thread was degenarating as I had predicted.
Poppa Bar Abba: Based on what are you assuming that I know nothing about the 12 step program?June 26, 2011 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #783842
Machshava refers to works like the nefesh hachaim. I don’t know the exact definition.June 26, 2011 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #783843
Poppa Bar Abba: Based on what are you assuming that I know nothing about the 12 step program?
Because if you did you would know that it has nothing to do with this thread and wouldn’t have brought it up.
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