Cholopchis vs Gefilte Kraut

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  • #1377179

    funnybone
    Participant

    My wife calls it gefilte kraut, I guess that would be Yiddish for stuffed cabbage, but isn’t the correct name cholopchis?

    #1377407

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Depends where one lived in Europe. Considering that cabbage = kraut…

    #1377501

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    I’ve never heard of Gefilte Kraut before. Is it Polish? Russian? I know cholopshis is Hungarian.

    #1377598

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Interesting choice of words, as Gefilte is not Yiddish for stuffed/filled, the actual word is: אָנגעפילט
    Similarly Cabbage in Yiddish is קרויט (kroyt)….
    With a matrilinear line that is German, cabbage to us is Kohl, not Kraut. Oma referred to stuffed cabbage
    gefüllt kohl.
    The Polish cleaning lady ate nadziewana kapusta, also known as golumpkis (cabbage rolls).
    In Russian it was known as Фаршированная капуста (Farshirovannaya kapusta)
    In every Hungarian it is: töltött káposzta the same Slavic root word. Yserbius123 claims Cholopshis as Hungarian, but is a term used by Hungarian Jews, not the name for the dish in the Hungarian language.
    Mrs. CTL’s step-father was Hungarian and his family was in the food business. They did not use the term
    cholopshis. He said he never encountered it in America until the refugees/survivors started to arrive after WWII and the 1956 uprising. We live near Bridgeport, which had the largest Hungarian ethnic community outside Hungary (Jews and non-Jews), there are still Hungarian food markets and they use the kaposzta label for cabbage rolls,

    Not matter what name you use, it’s a winter dish I love, especially when kept warm on the blech for Shabbos lunch, I much prefer it to cholent.

    #1377617

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Traditional Ungarishe recipe for Chalchopkis is to hollow out a large head of cabbage, stuff with a 5lb bag of sugar (remove bag first) and then bake in a 375 degree oven for 45 minutes. Garnish with a teaspoon of rice and ground beef before serving.

    #1377670

    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Um, my family called them ‘prakas’. CTL, do you have any linguistic explanation?

    #1377679

    Sadigurarebbe
    Participant

    Yeah we have cholopchis (sp?) all the time on simchas toirah in shul. Stuffed cabbage is apparently popular and people in my shul prefer it to kugel (gasp I know).

    #1377885

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Has anyone considered tofu and arugala salad for simchas torah? much healthier then either chulent or cholopchis (aka prakas)….

    #1378184

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    GH: Not in my neighborhood.

    #1378218

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    I grew up with a Hungarian grandmother and her choleptzus was my favorite dish- she served them sukkos and Purim. When she was no longer able to make them herself, I realized that the only way I could still eat them was if I made them- my mother never made them, because my grandmother supplied for the whole family. I made them happily for a few years, until my husband finally got up the courage to tell me that he does not like choleptzes. Haven’t made them since, but this thread is making me hungry for some.

    #1378381

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @mrs. Plony
    Prakas comes from the Turkish language. It entered both Ladino and Yiddish language. For Ashkenazim it entered the Yiddish of southern Poland, Bessarabia, etc.
    In the eastern US it was the prevalent term in Philadelphia (where I attended college more than 45 years ago) and also was well known in Baltimore. Perhaps their early non-German Jewish settlers were from Bessarabia and southern Poland and the tern was established there.

    #1378822

    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Thanks, CTL. And, yeah, I’m from Philly.

    #1378837

    Mammele
    Participant

    I was wondering about the term used here “cholopches” because we refer to it as “holopches” with no “ch” at the beginning but an “h” (or more frequently gefilte-kraut but that’s not my point now).

    When doing a search this way, Google immediately “understood” that I meant “holopchi” (or alternately, holopki) which is the UKRANIAN term for stuffed cabbage. Which makes sense with all the Jewish migration and border changes, that Slavic influences appear in Hungarian Jewish food and expression. Which might explain why ethnic Hungarians or more “proper” Hungarians didn’t use this term. So Holopches is simply the pluralized form of Holopchi, by non Ukranian Jews who aren’t particular about exact pronunciation IMHO.

    Sauerkraut is definitely a German food, so CTL’s assertion that his German Jewish family calls cabbage kohl not kraut got me baffled. However, it seems that kraut was a derogatory term for a German or German soldier (precisely because of the German love of Sauerkraut). It’s possible that’s the reason his Oma stayed away from the term, but it’s simply my guess.

    #1378876

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Mammele………………..
    Kohl is the German word for cabbage
    Kraut refers to the outer leaves and stems. These less than prime parts of the cabbage were often shredded and pickled for winter use, or made into Krautsalat (Cole Slaw) in the summer months.

    My Oma and her mother (who I also remember) were born in NYC in the 1800s. They learned their speech before America was ever at war with Germany and I don’t believe their choice of words had anything to do with anti-German Soldier slang. During WWI in the US sauerkraut was called Liberty Cabbage.

    My mother’ side of the family came here from Bavaria in the mid 1860s. They spoke High German. That language had less influence with the slavic tongues that the low German of the north. Northern Germany was a great transit route for millions of Jews leaving Poland and the Pale of Settlement on the way to America via the port of Hamburg. They often spent years in transit and earning their fares and had quite an influence on the languages (both Low German and Yiddish).

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