January 8, 2022 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #2049198
Anyone knows if its considered reliable?
For products, resturants, shechita?
(In Israel, many hashgachos are fine for one thing and not the other)
I would also appreciate any info about Badatz Bet Yosef.
Thanks.January 8, 2022 10:12 pm at 10:12 pm #2049302
There are two very different hechsheirim in Eretz Yisroel that use the name Chasam Sofer.January 8, 2022 10:51 pm at 10:51 pm #2049319AviraDeArahParticipant
“the velt” says that ch”s petach tikvah is better than bnei brakJanuary 9, 2022 1:43 am at 1:43 am #2049359
Ujm, I clearly write Petach Tikva.
I was told than Bnei Brak was better.January 9, 2022 1:44 am at 1:44 am #2049358hello99Participant
It’s not worse than triangle K in the USJanuary 9, 2022 1:53 am at 1:53 am #2049365
hello99: WB. It’s been a very long time…
Triangle-K isn’t accepted in regular frum homes.January 9, 2022 2:15 am at 2:15 am #2049368
Hello99: basically, youre saying it’s not acceptable?
Do you know anything about Shufra chickens with a Badatz ashdod and Chug chasam sofer?January 9, 2022 10:48 am at 10:48 am #2049456
Would all of this qualify as lashon hara of relatively high degree (as it damages someone’s business). If you have specific reasons and have proofs for them, state them: this heksher is allowing halav stam, or does not chdeck knives, or uses yain nesach …January 9, 2022 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #2049468anIsraeliYidParticipant
You should ask your personal Posek, not a bunch of anonymous internet trolls.
an Israeli YidJanuary 9, 2022 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #2049469
AAQ: Is it not okay to tell people that “Hechsher X” I do not consider reliable?January 9, 2022 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #2049480
Ifr their business is being machshir something which is not actually kosher, or even on a bedieved standard when it is claimed to be lechatchila, it is definitely letoeles.January 9, 2022 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #2049481Shopping613 🌠Participant
Chassam Sofer Petach Tikvah is not something we rely on generally. Yes I know katzefet is that hescher and sometimes we’re lenient about that and products. But a general resteraunt with it we won’t go to.
People don’t eat Beit Yosef due to it being a sefardi hescher and the ashkeanizim discriminate against sefardim a lot and there’s a lot of politics. Most people I know eat bet Yosef, for pareve and milk due to differing minhagim for meat. We were told it’s fine for meat and chicken as well.January 9, 2022 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #2049484eddieeParticipant
One would assume that this question is better directed to your Rav rather than to anonymous posters on the Coffee Room.January 9, 2022 2:25 pm at 2:25 pm #2049491hello99Participant
ujm: thanks for the welcome. my life has been too busy for coffee. I know, and that’s my point
yeshivish: i don’t have information on specific brands, and i try to be discrete about what i say about specific hashgachos, especially publicly. let’s just say your diyuk is accurate.
always ask: i’ve had personal experience with a former head of this hashgacha, and i was very disappointed with his integrity. and then he left because they weren’t up to his standards. so, it’s first hand information for a to’eles, not lashon ha’ra.January 9, 2022 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #2049514YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
an Israeli Yid: Not everyone is anonymous and not everyone is a troll.January 9, 2022 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #2049519
ujm > Is it not okay to tell people that “Hechsher X” I do not consider reliable?
good question. Same goes for shidduch and job applicants. I am thinking that if the listener respects your integrity and you actually have it, then it might be enough to say “don’t deal with X”, no need to share details. On the other hand, when you are advising someone who can’t rely on your personal integrity, you would need to help him with facts that can help him make a judgment. I think, we are mostly in the second reality in an online group. When someone here says that something “aint frum”, I can generally guess whether it means selling treif or not following the latest humrah, or has kippah srugah on premises, based on the poster, but more specificity would be helpful.
hello99 is a little more specific and eems to know something, but I don’t know you enough to judge. What is lack of integrity – koshering questionable treif to save money, dealing with evil zionists, relying on phone calls instead of visiting – my mind creates more scenarios than I like. I could even decide that if a low-integrity director left, maybe the place was better than the director?
“Explain yourself”, to quote the Caterpillar.January 9, 2022 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #2049525AviraDeArahParticipant
There’s a very big difference between kashrus issues in chutz loarerz and eretz yisroel. In eretz yisroel, anything besides water and salt that’s edible can have a multitude of kashrus problems and can be issurei deoraysoh. A reliable hashgocha isn’t just about shipping verification, ingredients and bishul akum (the biggest issues in American kashrus) – it’s a constant maze of preventing issues with terumos umaasros, shmitah, arlah, yoshon, and tons more – with little leniencies available.
Comparing triangle K to Israeli issues is way off.January 10, 2022 8:08 am at 8:08 am #2049778Shopping613 🌠Participant
There’s also issues with bishul akum here too – as well as ingredients, Jews milking cows on shabbos, and using the milk in production.
With restaurants there’s a huge issue of supervision. As AvireDeArah said, terumah, maaser, smittah – even with a good hashgocha if there’s not supervision somewhere what happens when they run out of cucumbers? Any joe shmoe who isn’t frum will go to any store to pick up more.
A woman in the north died this past year after eating milchig ice cream in a meat rabbanut restaurant.January 10, 2022 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm #2049893
Israeli issues are indeed harder.
Demai is a concept that makes certain assumptions about how Amei Haaretz behave and, at least, take
it to MidRabanan level where oter kulos are available. Are any similar concepts used in modern Israeli practice? Did it change over time? After all, a median agricultural worker in 1950s was an anti-religious kibutznik who would “bite like a horse” while now a median food worker (not including machines) is a traditional Marokai, who may not be up-and-up on all Ashkenazi minhagim and humros but respects religion and knows basics. At worst, he might add some rice into kneidlach.January 10, 2022 5:54 pm at 5:54 pm #2050037anIsraeliYidParticipant
Mod-29 – every single participant in this thread is using a handle that is clearly not a real name – making them anonymous. I do concede, though, that not everyone here is a troll – though there are definitely some here who are regularly trollish in other threads (hello, Joseph/ujm/whatever handle you’re using today!).January 13, 2022 12:32 pm at 12:32 pm #2050974Reb EliezerParticipant
They say hechsher X is not recommended.January 13, 2022 1:30 pm at 1:30 pm #2051013
Reb Eliezer, if Hechsher X was actually around, would your statement be Loshon Hora or would it be proper for you to say that l’toeles?January 13, 2022 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #2051043Reb EliezerParticipant
It is said l’toeles provided you have a good reason to say it. I think the government forbids saying something positive against it.January 13, 2022 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #2051176
RebE, “not recommended” works if the other party trusts you and you have very similar minhagim and attitudes; or at least you know well where the other party stands, and the pther parties knows that you know.January 16, 2022 10:36 am at 10:36 am #2051511Avi KParticipant
What is considered unreliable? Specify what they are doing wrong. If you cannot, keep quiet.January 16, 2022 11:00 am at 11:00 am #2051536
Avi: Would you eat Triangle-K meat (i.e. Hebrew National)? Triangle-K dairy?
If not, what are they doing wrong?January 16, 2022 12:22 pm at 12:22 pm #2051555
Maybe one way to be yashar about your preferences is statistical: admit that any kashrus supervision has a reasonable chance of being non-kosher and then view some agencies more likely to provide a kosher product due to more supervision and chumros providing geder around other issues. In theory, this would mean that mashgiach tmidi with lower standards would be more acceptable that OOT Super-chareidi one, Not sure if such situation exists in practice.January 16, 2022 12:25 pm at 12:25 pm #2051550
ujm, this is a good example. In addition to some specific leniencies and non-glatt, there seems to be other issues involved: HN reputation from before Tri-K, overall reputation for leniencies, sometimes lack of transparency, and, OMG, seemingly lack of cooperation and piety towards other authorities… I can not determine exact weights of each part of this semi-kosher mixture, but it seems that all are present to some degree.January 16, 2022 12:35 pm at 12:35 pm #2051564🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
“overall reputation for leniencies, sometimes lack of transparency, and, OMG, seemingly lack of cooperation and piety towards other authorities…”
Maybe it was a typo but are you aware that your choosing to put OMG in there expresses the idea that this is just drama? That leniences, and lack of transparency are somehow not actually real serious kashrus issue but rather just someone being “over the top”?
It lines up with your, ” so what if you don’t trust them, do you have specifics” attitude as well. A person who doesn’t earn your trust should not be left in a position that relies on trustworthinessJanuary 16, 2022 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #2051613
Syag, follow the grammar: and, OMG, xxxxx
OMG is for the latter part, not for the previous ones. I am saying that I see a mix of issues here, some sound concerning (before OMG) and others sounds suspicious (after). I see reasonably reputable sources listing specific halachik issues that should stop some people, and then I see a sea of innuendo that is hard to evaluate. For example, I understand that TriK took over HNs. HNs were totally unreliable before, and he seemingly made it more so. Seems like a good thing in general and yashar koach on taking on such a risky (reputationally and halachically) venture (unless you hold that eating unhealthy food is not a mitzva :), but would reputation of HN add to the doubters who prefer play it safe? I don’t know enough of kashrus business to understand all of this. Maybe someone from a meatpacking city can enlighten me 🙂January 16, 2022 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #2051631
Hebrew National has been under Triangle-K for many decades, already.January 16, 2022 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #2051643☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Wow, a cameo appearance by hello99! So nice to see you!January 16, 2022 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #2051648
Avira, are the sure about your first comment here? hello99 is a choshuve long time Rov in Eretz Yisroel and has an excellent handle on these issues.January 16, 2022 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #2051655
ujm, looks like 2004, not yet “decades” yet
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