Circumstantial Evidence and Science in Jewish Law

Proof can always be used, and actual Eidus is never required, even by Gittin (according to many Rishonim & the SA). Can you be more specific?

Gavra: Are you saying that scientific proof (i.e. DNA evidence) is acceptable as proof?

Absolutely, it just depends for what case/proof. Once again, can you be more specific?

For example, I know of no Rav who would not be Mattir an Agunah based on scientific proof that a dead person was her husband, just like dental records can be used according to many poskim. Of course, that does assume that the DNA testing is proof (as opposed to a “likelihood” or proof of relation). I am not a Muvhak in DNA testing methods, and do not know if they are considered “proof”.

DNA is never 100% proof. Science admits there is (something like) a 1 in 100 million chance it belongs to someone else with an exact same dna sequence.

OK, so pick a different example. Lets say there was a retina scan that someone was in a building that collapses, and they find one unidentifiable body. Or if they can identify a body via a fingerprint. That would be “proof”.

I don’t know if a 1/100 Million chance of being wrong is Halachic “proof”.

DNA is never 100% proof. Science admits there is (something like) a 1 in 100 million chance it belongs to someone else with an exact same dna sequence.

No. That’s incorrect.

The only people who will have identical DNA to you are your identical twin or your clone. No one else will ever have identical DNA to you.

Part of your DNA IS your fingerprint…..

That is incorrect. Fingerprints have nothing to do with DNA. In fact, identical twins, who have the same DNA, have different fingerprints.

The Wolf

From one of the cases from the WTC, I know that R Elyashiv did not rely on DNA alone to be matir an agunah. And not because he was unaware what DNA is. He paskined that DNA alone is not enough. It was only in conjuction with other proofs that they were able to be matir the agunah.

I heard this directly from a rov who was actively involved in the case. (He was the one who brought the shaila to R Elyashiv on behalf of the Agunah).

Wolf: You agree that science admits dna evidence is not 100% proof it is the person it matched, correct?

If you have a clone or an identical twin, then certainly it’s not (although it could be argued that if you find a leg and the person has an identical twin, and the twin is standing right in front of you with two legs, that you could probably consider it a match).

According to the FBI, the odds of an unrelated person having the same DNA as you is 1 in 100 billion — which is currently about 15 times the population of the Earth — and that number depends on the number of sites on the DNA strand you inspect. If you inspect more sites, the odds of finding a match drop even more.

Granted, it’s not 100% — but then again, neither are the traditionally accepted methods either. The odds of a mistaken identification by an eyewitness (which *is* universally regarded as acceptable) are far greater than 1 in 100 billion.

The Wolf

Two eye-witnesses who are thoroughly vetted by Beis Din so that their stories exactly match, before their testimony is accepted, is required in a criminal case.

I’m not disputing that.

But DNA can be used by courts in different ways. For example, DNA evidence can be used to show that the witnesses are liars, even if their stories exactly match.

In addition, not every case is a criminal case.

The Wolf

Shmoel: Not by an Agunah.