June 5, 2020 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #1868356
It was the day of Tach Vetat in 1648 through Chmielnicki ym’s. The Jews were the tax collectors in Poland and the rich land owners with the help of Cosaks created a revolution and killed over 300,000 Jews. This is documented by Rav Hanover in the sefer יון מצולה available at http://www.hebrewbooks.org.June 5, 2020 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #1868447
RE, you have it backwards. The rich land owners were the Cossacks’ targets, not their allies! The Jews were targeted because we worked for the rich landowners. Remember that Poland before the 20th century Poland had a solid 700-year history of being friendly to the Jews, with very little if any antisemitism. We called it פה לין, “here we can spend the night”. All that changed somewhere around 1900, I don’t really understand why. The Poles turned from friends of the Jews to vicious enemies.June 6, 2020 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #1868522rationalParticipant
I think the expression was פולניה as in פה לן קהJune 6, 2020 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #1868593charliehallParticipant
Josef Pilsudski, the leftist Polish dictator who ruled Poland from 1918 to 1922 and again from 1926 to his death in 1935, loved Jews. Unfortunately after his death, things got very bad very quickly.June 7, 2020 12:27 am at 12:27 am #1868621
I think the expression was פולניה as in פה לן קה
No, it was not. The country is and always was called פולין, never פולניה.June 7, 2020 10:07 am at 10:07 am #1868708n0mesorahParticipant
“Very little if any antisemitism” I guess you mean state sponsored. Among the general populace and especially from some of the priests, there was a lot of agitation.
Around 1900 the Jews in Poland splintered. And fought bitterly over political approval. The Jews inclusion in the parliament did not endear them to the common Pole. There is a lesson somewhere……….June 7, 2020 10:21 am at 10:21 am #1868715
Among the general populace and especially from some of the priests, there was a lot of agitation.
What is your evidence for any significant antisemitism in Poland before the 20th century?June 7, 2020 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #1868913ipchamistabraParticipant
Polish antisemitism was a result of the Germans! in 12-something the Polish King (Kuszmirz?) invited Germans to settle in Poland and granted then a bill of rights. Jews and non-Jews flocked there, and settled in the cities. The king’s plan was to create a class of traders and build up the country. The Germans formed into guilds, as they had in Germany, and worked hard to exclude their Jewish rivals. The Priests that came with them also had what to say against the Jews from the pulpits. Eventually the Jews were expelled from many cities (in Krakow, that meant moving to a new suburb) and many took up employment with the aristocracy. This separation worked, and at least kept the two side physically apart. BTW, the Germans didn’t all assimilate. Many retained their language and customs and were called volksdeutsche. Nazi German radio broadcasts into Poland attracted a massive following amongst this group and this incited serious antisemitism. All that said, there must have been underlying antisemitism – perhaps again fostered by the volkdeutsche and their priests – for it to have taken hold so quickly and so strongly, but excessive overt signs do not appear to have been historically present during the two or three centuries of separation. During the Chmielnicki massacres, the besieged Poles sold out the Jews a few times in return for their lives to the cossacks, but that is only to be expected.June 7, 2020 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #1868923leMaan AchaiParticipant
It is also a very sad reminder how stability is so important.
“Hevey mispallel…”June 8, 2020 11:25 am at 11:25 am #1869106n0mesorahParticipant
We seem to be on the same page here. The Jews lost their royal positions and were expelled from Krakow in the 15th century. The Warsaw blood libel in the 17th. As well as the Frankists. But compared to Europe at large, this is hardly significant.June 8, 2020 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #1869212
I come from Sopron, Hungary where in 1526 when the Turks took over Hungary, the Jews were exiled for 150 years. The Hungarians borrowed money from Jews and were unable to repay it, so they got rid of them.June 9, 2020 12:27 pm at 12:27 pm #1869633
Should be above, the Turks took over part of Hungary.June 11, 2020 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm #1870740leMaan AchaiParticipant
The Ohev Yisroel (Matos) connects this day to (prepare) oneself to Yom Kippur
UnlinkedJune 12, 2022 9:44 am at 9:44 am #2095690
We should remember the 20th of Sivan this year, Tach Vetat as pointed out by the Magen Avraham.June 12, 2022 10:53 am at 10:53 am #2095705
Of course, there was anti-Semitism in Poland, but it has to be put in the context of alternatives – Prussia, Russia …. Jews willingly moved to Poland when invited as described above. Jews had their own government – Vaad Arba Artzot that was a pretty powerful entity for some time and declined in parallel to the Polish state itself. Poland fell behind economically – while other countries industrialized, Poland was charging them high prices for (in large part, Ukrainian) wheat, but this wokred only for some time. Politically, Seim had a 1 vote veto power leading to worse filibusters than US Senate, especially when Russians were able to buy off a couple of members. After Poland/Lita was divided by Germany/Austro-Hungary/Russia in 17xx-s, Jews mostly supported Polish rebellions against Russia. The short period of independence in 1920-39 had lots of stuff happening with both Polish and Jewish nationalism, socialism, and external attacks by Germany and USSR. A lot of Jews complained, but also a lot were pretty pro-Polish. When religious Jews in Warsaw saw planes over the city, they were sure, like all Poles, that these are mighty Polish planes on the way to repel German army. So, the bombs were a complete surprise. Turns out, Poles (and Jews) took years after WW1 to fight against each other while maintaining cavalry, and Germany and USSR were building tanks and planes together.June 12, 2022 10:54 am at 10:54 am #2095708
Ukrainian Kozaks did not succeed in that rebellion – their strategy was to “partner” with Russians against the Poles, but Russians had other ideas and annexed the area. Eastern Ukraine (this is where Kozaks were) is paying for that strategic mistake now.June 12, 2022 12:14 pm at 12:14 pm #2095735BenephraimParticipant
Is it true that both the Shatzer Illuy ( Reb Meir Shapiro ) and Rav Nosson Lewin ( son in law of the Beis Yitzchok 0f Lemberg) served in the Seim and spoke to the Parliament in Polish? Were there any other Rabbonim in the Seim and when did they serve? What about Congress Poland and Mazowieck?June 12, 2022 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #2095759ujmParticipant
The descendents of the Cossacks are today receiving their just comeuppance (or to use the lingo of millennials, karma) for Tach V’Tat.June 12, 2022 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #2095774
Polish 1922 elections: 35 Jews (10%, about percentage of Jews in general population), of which 6 Agudas Isroel, incl R Shapiro. Apparently, he worked on his Polish a lot, not just Daf Yomi, while serving in Seim.
In 1922, 65% of Jews voted for minority parties, in 1928 – only 33%, 49% for Pilsudski’s block, 7% for Communists. 44% of Orthodox Xians voted for Commies. 16% of majority Catholics voted for Pilsudsky, 45% for left, 15% for right, 4% for CommiesJune 12, 2022 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #2095775
Last par typo: 1928, not 1922June 12, 2022 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #2095776
others who were elected in Sejm:
Alexander Zusia Friedman, R Rabbi Yosef Nechemya Kornitzer of Kraków, Leib Mincberg. So, we have 5 out of 6-7 that probably served in Sejms. R Mordechai Dubin served in Latvia.
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