Condoning by silence (T)

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  • #1273245

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Many people when raising children teach them about how bad it is to lie, steal, and jaywalk, but few bother to teach their children that cannibalism is wrong! How can they condone such horrors?

    #1273281

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Because if you teach children that cannibalism is wrong then they will want to cannibalize.

    #1273293

    Yes RY, this is an exact parody of some recent posts/accusations. Whatever you left unsaid becomes silently mentioned, and then you become responsible for this support of the unmentioned.

    #1273320

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Then why do we teach them that stealing is wrong?

    #1273755

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    We don’t teach them that it is wrong to lie or to steal until it comes up. Or if it is in the Parsha or Chumash that they are learning. If cannibalism comes up and you don’t say anything about it, then you are right.

    I actually did learn about it in halacha at some point.

    #1273838

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    So if it never comes up, kids never get taught it?

    #1273902

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    There are a lot of things kids never learn. We are supposed to be learning our whole lives. There are many things I haven’t learned yet. And actually, the halachos of cannibalism is something that I did learn at some point, despite the fact that there are many halachos that come up more frequently that I haven’t yet learned 🙁

    #1273916

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Can you elaborate for all the CR users who are possibly cannibalizing because they were never taught it was wrong?

    #1273928

    rebyidd32
    Participant

    So if it never comes up, kids never get taught it?

    Hu? What are you talking about?

    #1273933

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I object.

    #1273947

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I would too.

    #1273956

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Who is rebyidd32?

    #1274352

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I would also like to know.

    #1274389

    rebyidd32
    Participant

    I would keep going just didn’t realize that I didn’t capitalize so what’s the point right?

    #1274401

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I don’t remember what I learned. I think it’s technically less of an issur than eating treif, but it could be that given the choice it’s better to eat treif even though it’s technically a bigger issur. Kind of like how it’s worse for a man to marry to goy than it is to marry a Jew who doesn’t keep taharas hamishpacha even though the second one is technically a bigger aveira.

    But I don’t remember and I might be wrong (about both issues). I’m sure some of the men here have learned it. Ask them.

    #1274403

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    But who are you?

    #1274402

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I don’t know if people notice capitalization so quickly. My name got changed from lower-case to capital and I didn’t even notice.

    #1274414

    rebyidd32
    Participant

    WHo are you? I’m just a figment of your imagination ……

    #1274422

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I don’t have time for this right now.

    #1274439

    mw13
    Participant

    Anybody surprised that mod-29 approved of this “parody”, instead of bashing it as “mocking” and “leitzanus”?

    Yet another double standard.

    #1274446

    And now I see that the OP I responded to isn’t even there anymore. Interesting.

    #1274462

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Mocking what exactly?

    #1274519

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I have to know who this rebyidd32 is who forgot to capitalize it when he arrived and didn’t change it after.

    #1289428

    mw13
    Participant

    Does anybody really think that anybody is condoning abusers or thieves?

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/quotes-2/page/3/#post-1285675

    #1289599

    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    psshhh there was yw editor and mod-100 involved. Conspiracy theory…

    #1290230

    twisted
    Participant

    “then why do we teach them that stealing is wrong?”

    Indeed, in my EY neighborhood stealing is wrong, with the exception of stolen shopping carts appropriated for hauling (sometimes) stolen wood in honor of the Holy minhag of Lag b’Omer. Here the silence is deafening, and I have been tongue lashed fior bringing the subject up.

    #1291661

    psshhh there was yw editor and mod-100 involved. Conspiracy theory…

    See >here.<

    #1292182

    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    oh cool. nonethelesssssssssss…..

    #1550064

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Trump hasn’t spoken against cannibalism.

    #1550238

    Midwest2
    Participant

    It’s the Three Weeks. Before hitting the “Submit” button maybe we should all remember that and reread the post first.

    #1550646

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    What a rude thing to say.

    #1551988

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Trump is possibly pro cannibalism.

    #1551996

    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Well, we teach that murder is wrong. Cannibalism is impossible without killing someone, right? So we don’t have to add the extra anti-cannibalism lecture, do we?

    #1552038

    Participant
    Participant

    eating dead people is also cannibalism.

    #1552636

    Eating live people (partially) is also cannibalism.

    #1552722

    Charedi kby soldier
    Participant

    The issur of eating human flesh is subject to a machlokes rishonim. The Rambam in hilchos maachalos asuros, perek 2 halacha 3 says it’s an issur aseh, the magid mishna there quotes the Raavad, Rashba and Ramban as arguing and saying that meat of a living human has no issur mayikar hadin, though the Rosh in ksubos perek 5 siman 19 (daf 60a) says that there would be a maris ayin issue in some circumstances, but he too holds like the Ramban and others, the Ra’ah holds that there’s actually an issur dioraysa (quoted by magid mishna there as well as the ritva and sheeta mikubetzes in ksubos there). The Ramban (quoted by magid mishna) does point out though, that there would be an issur hanaa midioraysa of flesh from a dead person, as learned from a gzaira shava from egla arufa.
    So we have a three way machlokes rishonim regarding living human flesh, some hold one violates an aseh, some hold there is only a maris ayin issue and some hold there’s an issur lav dioraysa.

    #1552725

    Charedi kby soldier
    Participant

    In terms of needing to save oneself from death and having a choice between pig and human flesh, lichora according to the sugya in yoma 83a, that says that one is meant to mitigate the issurim one needs to violate in life threatening circumstances, it should be pashut that one should eat the human, as according to many rishonim there is no explicit lav banning it (the gzaira shava wouldn’t be enough to give malkus) and eating pig is an aseh and lo taase (see Rambam sefer hamitzvos, aseh 149 (also the aseh to not eat human) and lo taase 172). The argument comparing it to marrying a goya vs non religious Jewess is strange, as there, there are obvious detrimental potential outcomes and potential extreme difficulties of tshuva if one were to encourage inter marriage over non religious Jews and this is talking about a willing sinner whom we’d like to keep as close as possible to Torah as opposed to the eating case, where we’re attempting to save a life and the lesser issur becomes muttar. (see Rambam hilchos isuray beeya perek 12 halachos 7 and 8 as well as shu”t rivash siman 425 who mentions derech agav toward the end that the gdolim didn’t close the batay zonos of Jews because if they had then the men would just go to the goyos and the consequences would be detrimental, r”l. In contrast to the rivash, however, see shu”t zichron Yehuda of Rabbi Yehuda the son of the rosh, siman 17 part 2, but see also siman 97 part 1)

    #1552726

    Charedi kby soldier
    Participant

    On the other hand, it is true that the dor revi’i does say that one should choose to eat the pig flesh instead of the human flesh in a case of mortal danger (I suppose because he thinks that it is so disgusting and immoral to eat the human flesh that it can’t be that that would be preferred, I have yet to see the piece inside, unfortunately), which is seemingly an extremely problematic psak, as we have a klal from brachos 19b, based on the pasuk in mishlay 21,30, that our morals and sensibilities cannot override an issur dioraysa, and indeed, I’ve heard in the name of one of the greatest roshei yeshiva of recent generations that one should eat the human flesh based on this, although I heard a counter argument from another rosh yeshiva that the inyan to mitigate issurim in sakana in yoma 83 is a din dirabbanan, and min hatorah, one could violate anything to save his life and since we are now dealing with an issur dirabbanan to eat the technically more chamur issur, the klal of kavod habreeyos being docheh dirabbanans (brachos 19b) can come into play if it would be so offensive to the dying person to eat the human (as, this rosh yeshiva allegedly argued, it should be), and he’d therefore be allowed to eat the pig instead.

    #1552734

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    בזיון המת

    #1553598

    Charedi kby soldier
    Participant

    A friend of mine (who is not currently in the army, so he has more sfarim available, in his zchus I am able to stand in war (makos 10b, although he’s not technically in the gates of Yerushalayim, I think that’s commonly understood to be referring to lomday Torah in general) and due to me, he is able to sit and learn (sanhedrin 49a, someone’s gotta protect am yisroel, lichora lav davka yoav)) pointed out that there is also the sheeta of the rashbash (shu”t rashbash siman 518) who holds that when the person is alive, his meat is assur meeshum aiver min hachai and when dead, it’s assur because a dead body is assur bihanaa, slightly different from the Ra’ah, who seems to think that it’s the same issur in both cases, so there are actually four sheetos in the rishonim, my mistake.

    #1554532

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Either way, everyone should be aware that it is assur.

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