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what do you think
It’s a traitorous flag. It is the flag of rebels who rose up and committed treason against the United States. It is the flag of a group that declared war against the United States and killed American soldiers.
That you should be more specific with your question.
The Wolf
Arkansas
Um.
Joseph that’s a really oversimplified and somewhat inaccurate synopsis. Put it in context – the country was so young that many people more readily identified with their personal state/former colony than with the federal government. If their state was to go one way it would be traitorous to align oneself with a more unfamiliar government in D.C. Many of them felt they weren’t the rebels but that the north was reneging on the social contact that the country was based on. The true reason for the civil war wasn’t “exactly” over slavery but more accurately how much sovereignty should the states be expected to sacrifice for the sake of the central government. Keep in mind just a little bit earlier a revolution had been fought to found a country in the spirit of rebelling against the ultimate central power – a monarchy. The south was fighting for the very ideal the country was made for in the first place – less rights and power for the central government and more for the local populace and the people. In an age when Obama is snooping through your phone calls and emails this is a very relevant issue even today. The horrific tragedy of the war is that the southerners used this great ideal to justify one of the cruelest phenomenons of enslavement (which is the ultimate hypocrisy fighting for one’s personal rights just to use them to deny others theirs in even the most fundamental ways).
Joseph, the American flag is a traitorous flag. It is the flag of rebels who rose up and committed treason against Britain. It is the flag of a group that declared war against the Kingdom of Great Britain and killed British soldiers.
Joseph, the same argument can be made about the American flag from a British perspective.
The Confederate flag did not have to do with racism being that there were slaves of other ethnicities and races not just blacks.
Who really cares what anybody in the CR thinks? The law makers down south will be deciding WITHOUT reading YWN CR.
I agree with Joseph. Those who are saying the US is a traitorous flag are being absurd. So in the UK they shouldnt fly it, ok that does make sense
At any rate today it is a symbol of racism. It is not a coincidence that the flag was raised on the SC courthouse in 1961 during the civil rights era.
Also consider the fact that the Confederate flag is often flown by neonazis and even in Europe where they have no connection to “southern pride” in coutries where the swastika is banned neo-nazi groups often go with, what they must view as the next best thing, namely the confedare battle standard.
Rew, what are you talking about? There were millions of black slaves. Which other ethnicities were also slaves? ( if any ). The preservation of slavery and King Cotton drive the war. The rest was created by the planter class to persuade the 80% of the Southerners who were farmers who owned no slaves to fight.
The confederate flag is the flag of a rebellion that lost. That is the only real difference.
For the record, I think the flag should be taken down. I also think that Joseph’s reason was incorrect.
ubiquitin: A lot of southerners moved away after they lost the civil war. North America (i.e. the US) no longer was a place they wanted to live in. Too much govt control. Could be they moved back to Europe were they originally came from doesn’t make it symbolic with racism.
The same can be said of the Magen David. Being that the Jews had to wear it to allow for persecution during the WWII era, does that mean that the Israelis want their country persecuted therefore they use the Magen David on their flag.
lesschumras: The civil war was a power struggle. The southern states seceded from the union by democratic vote but, Abraham Lincoln did not want to be a president on such a small country so HE started the war. The southerners had no intention of war. The big question is, did anybody really have the slaves in mind or were others who could not afford it just jealous.(like the wall street protesters). Maybe just maybe they used the concept of freeing the slaves in order to control the south, since the capital moved at that time from New York which was a blow to the north. That is how politics works nothing to do with morals and rights. One persons rights results in the other persons lack of rights.(that’s a topic in itself)
it matters little what the flag represents. does it matter that the swastika represents the universe in our own spiral galaxy in the fore finger of Vishnu? It is a symbol of hate which offends and horrifies those which it targets. Same is true with the flag. That, combined with the fact that there is no actual reason to fly the flag in south carolina – it is not the state flag of s.c. – makes this one an easy call. take it down.
Rew
“Could be they moved back to Europe were they originally came from doesn’t make it symbolic with racism.”
What?
White supremiscts who cannot fly a swastika instead choose to fly the confedarate flag. This is quite telling. No they arent descendents of southerners who left the US. Is that what you were saying?
“The same can be said of the Magen David. Being that the Jews had to wear it to allow for persecution during the WWII era, does that mean that the Israelis want their country persecuted therefore they use the Magen David on their flag.”
what? No.
Given that the flag was the symbol of a racist government and today has been adopted by white supremascists and neonazis should settle this discussion
1, They lost.
2. The ONLY issue in the war was slavery. They offered to stay in the union if the constitution was amended to protect slavery. When facing certain defeat they were offered the opportunity to surrender, reenter the union (with everything forgiven) if only they would agree to abolish slavery – the turned down the offer. States rights wasn’t an issue (in fact it was the northern states who were screaming “states rights” which they were using to declare any Black found in their territory to be free in accordance with the state law that all persons are free – a law based on English common law). Also, most southerners favored the union and more southerners wore blue rather than grey (though admitedly the pro-sucession did have a majority of soutern whites – if they had one man one vote they would have been no civil war).
3. Just as we object to the Nazi flag, as do almost all patriotic Americans, the objections by African Americans, and a a great many patriotic Americans of other ethnic groups, to the former rebel banner is quite justified.
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