August 16, 2012 9:45 am at 9:45 am #994334
GoldersGreener, I hate the punishment, but can’t you let a child enjoy life?August 16, 2012 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #994335oomisParticipant
Moshe, anyone ever tell you about the boy who cried wolf (no disrepect to Wolfishmusings)? What you did was VERY serious, and you should have been suspended. Fire is not a joke, and faking an alarm is actually a criminal act. You could have been arrested.
Forcing the Fire Department to respond to a phony call, might have chalilah resulted in someone else’s death because that fire department was deployed by your school instead of where they were really needed. And you BOAST about this immature act? You think you were a HERO???? Your actions were more like a zero. What a chillul Hashem, if this is not a phony post (which I am tending to think it was)!
I try never to be abrasive or argumentative with anyone here, but if this was not a “troll” type post and really happened, you should be ashamed of your actions instead of bragging about them and asserting you would do it again.August 19, 2012 10:58 am at 10:58 am #994336ybrooklynteacherMember
Sorry oomis 1105, the story really happened. i know which school it was.
unfourtunatley suspending a child today isn’t always such a good idea, most of them just enjoy a vacation for the time they get off. It depends a lot on the child, but with a conficent shild it is not an option.
By the way, the children involved were not completely responsible for the fire departmant being called, the mains of the alarm showed clearly that the alarm was sounded on purpose, it was a couple of teachers, who were sure that it was not a drill that called them.August 20, 2012 10:05 pm at 10:05 pm #994337Moishe SMember
don’t know what you want Oomnis, the only reasont that the fire department was called was because a teacher panicked. The alarm has a small screen which says which sensor detected the fire, and it said clearly that it was set off by the pin code.October 11, 2012 11:13 am at 11:13 am #994338
Sorry to get involved, but i think if you offer your mother that for two weeks you will not do anything crazy in school, she might just agree to buy you about six pairs of shabbos shoes.October 11, 2012 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #994339twistedParticipant
I would suspect that this is from the unfortunate pekel of European ideas that remain in our society. I suffered this treatment as a first grader 48 years ago, when the concept of teaching credentials was still in its formative stage. The limudei kodesh teachers were of European and European/Israeli background. I have no way of knowing if this scarred me forever, but for sure it is in the mix, and as my name says, I am not the most normal guy on the block, though I function well, I have a strong dislike/ disregard for authority.October 11, 2012 10:31 pm at 10:31 pm #994340
If you still remeber what they did to you in first grade, it must have traumatized youy pretty badly.October 14, 2012 12:37 pm at 12:37 pm #994341goldersgreenerParticipant
Mrs. Katz, i second that.
Twisted, not every European idea is so out of place or unfourtunate. Hatzlocho is untwisting yourself.October 15, 2012 11:17 am at 11:17 am #994342
You guys really have shoe fever.
Confiscating shoes is not a fair punishment for a very simple reason, some kids will probably be traumatised – like twisted, while others would love it. [Parents are always telling me that their children’s teachers complain that they kick their shoes under their desks and what should they do.October 15, 2012 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #994343
Anyway, isn’t it geneiva?October 15, 2012 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #994344
I have a brilliant idea.
All children should remove their shoes before they enter the school buiding. A child who misbehaves will be required to put their shoes on. This will save a misbehaving child the humiliation of having his shoes removed.October 15, 2012 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm #994345
One more brilliant idea,
Brooklyn teacher and shoe store assistant should switch jobs. le’toivas ha’Klal.October 15, 2012 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #994346
I am reluctant to write about any other moissod’s way of disciplining, but I think that one has to realise that every case is different. If a child does not accept authority on a regular basis, then it is necassary to have a punishment that all the children will remember for a long time, in order to keep discipline.
Although i have never used this particular punishment i think that some more extreme measures are necassary to ensure that the clas/camp run smoothly, and authority is accepted.October 15, 2012 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #994347
I actually have an admission to make, I suffered a very traumatic event in my childhood.
I only bought My first pair of lace ups in the middle of fourth grade, and of course I went to school without knowing how to tie a lace. Our teacher then was an older ennglish lady told me a few times to tie my sheolaces, and eventually made me take off my shoes. To add to my trauma, she actaully chose a day on which we had sports/ (which we did in the school lunch room).
Of course i wore my old shoes to school for the next few days, until my mother realised, and then i had to start asking my friends to tie my laces during recess. In all honesty i don’t think it really bothered me that much.
Someone told me in the store recently that their son always removes his shoes in school and the rebbi eventually confiscated them, but I think that it is a bit different if the child takes them off himself.October 15, 2012 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #994348ZeesKiteParticipant
..they should swotch jobs.. That’s for you to do – venahapoich Hu!October 15, 2012 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #994349
Sounds like it did bother you.
In all honesty i never knew how to tie a shoelace, and didn’t leanr how to tie a bow until my mother bought me a tisch bekesch by my bar mitzva. I’m serious.October 16, 2012 12:25 pm at 12:25 pm #994350
Venahapoich Hu, it didn’t disturb me that much at the time, althoguh i obviously would have preferred for it not to have happened. She did it occasionally to other children, and i don’t think anyone considered it humiliating in any way.October 17, 2012 11:53 am at 11:53 am #994351
Venahpoich, did ypur rebbis teachers and parents not care? Mine ttooki it really seriously.October 17, 2012 10:08 pm at 10:08 pm #994352
I generally did not wear shoelaces,
At home i never wear shoes,
But when i wore laces to schoool they didn’t take it too seriously, but they did drive me quite crazy. and yes one or two did threaten to take away my shoes but i don’t remember anyone doing it. [i think a sports teacher once took my sneakers or soemthing.October 18, 2012 12:36 am at 12:36 am #994353
I have been doing an informal survey on my customers to see whether their children have ever had to remove their shoes in school.
a) every child has been asked to remove their shoes as part of “regular” activities, i.e. soft play, ball ponds, doctors or nurses doing checkups, various sport activities done without footwear.
b) Most schools do not allow children to come in crocs, and some do not allow sneakers too. Many schools ignore it if the children come in once or twice, but eventually warn the children the first time, and then either send them home, or confiscate the footwear.
Some also insist on sneakers for sport activites, and at least one boy said that if they forget their sneakers at home two weeks running they have to forfeit their shoes for AN ENTIRE DAY.
And now some interesting ones.
C) a maths teacher who told all the childrfen to remove their shoes and then showed them how to measure all the feet, and taught the chidlren how to make graphs.
d) a rebbi who if he sends a boy out of class first confiscates his shoes, he says he doesn’t want the boys playing soccer in the yard when he sent them out of class!!!!
e) one school take off both the shoes and socks and CLIMB ROPES BAREFOOT!!!
f) a rebbi who runs a quiz, where if you don’t know a question you take off your shoe. if you lose both shoes you’re out.
g) a sports teacher who tells the boys to do head stands and tumble overs in stocking feet.
There were quite a few more, each stranger than the next, including art – draw round your barefoot, or draw your shoe! science activities, plays… you name it.October 18, 2012 12:08 pm at 12:08 pm #994354
May hashem have much rachmanus on all his creatures, especially our yiddishe kinderlachOctober 22, 2012 11:53 am at 11:53 am #994355
really pleased to see that you guys have recovered.
Venahapoich hu, amen to all your brochos, on this post and everywhere else. Mat Hashem answer all your tefillois.October 24, 2012 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #994356
A neighbor’s child returned home today from school, hysterical and, you guessed it, unshod.
The story? When the school secretary, an eldery woman, arrived in the school that morning she tripped over a stair, and her shoe fell off. the child promptly kicked it across the yard.
What do you guys say? It’s a true story.October 25, 2012 5:37 am at 5:37 am #994357aurora77Participant
Hello shoe store assistant,
I have been chuckling as I read your informal survey results…in my mind’s eye, I see you asking various matrons with gaggles of children a series of questions, and as they all respond at once, you are furiously scribbling notes on a small pad of paper that you keep in your pocket. 🙂October 25, 2012 11:42 am at 11:42 am #994358
Aurora, i’d really love to run a survey on that maths questions in the other thread.
I’m out to prove that children function better when they are not wearing their shoes!!!!!October 25, 2012 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #994359aurora77Participant
Hello shoe store assistant,
I wish you good luck with that project!! Interesting thesis…
I am too timid with math to touch that other question 🙂December 8, 2012 3:29 am at 3:29 am #994360Ghifan223Participant
I am in 10th grade
My teacher i have currently makes us take off our shoes. I dont mind at all. She says it helps us focus and it relaxes us more. She has us put them in a corner untill the end of the period.
We do not have a uniform cause it is a public school. But i wear normal clothes w/ white hanes socks and nikesDecember 10, 2012 4:01 am at 4:01 am #994361147Participant
Based on yesterday’s Haftoro of vaYeshev from Sepher Amos, tragically, people will do anything for a pair of shoes. Nothing has changed since Amos’s time thru to our time.January 1, 2013 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #994362
Hi, i’m back, just thought i would revive an old threadFebruary 12, 2013 10:58 pm at 10:58 pm #994363
BUMPFebruary 13, 2013 12:11 am at 12:11 am #994364goldersgreenerParticipant
thanksFebruary 13, 2013 12:57 am at 12:57 am #994365ybrooklynteacherMember
What a child wears is the parents decision. For the school to involve itself with the clothing or footwear is overstepping boundaries.
There are two exceptions:
If the school has rules about clothing, i.e. uniform, sports shoes for sports, etc… then obviously they should enforce them – without humiliating the child.
If a child misuses an item of clothing or footwear, say he throws his shoe(s) at a teacher or classmate, then obviously it is the educators right to proceed as they see fit. I have given another example in the above thread.
Confiscating footwear if a child comes late to school is definitely overstepping boundaries. The punishment is also out of proportion and unreasonable.
Always remember, a child’s ego is very fragile, and humiliating them in public is never a good idea.December 15, 2013 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #994366feterleibelMember
I find it amazing that when i google “confiscating shoes” the first site to come up is YWN coffeeroomDecember 15, 2013 2:20 pm at 2:20 pm #994367feterleibelMember
On the second site to come up there was a poll about it, and here are some results:
Over 88% said that it was used as a punishment in their school.
36% said they loved it, 27% as no big deal
68% said they prefer to forfeit their shoes to staiying in detention.
Also, a quote;
Whether or not shoes confiscation is a punishment, it does solve problems. If you take away shoes for kicking and fighting,a student can not harm a person in just socks as he can with shoes on. If you take away shoes for running in the hall, the offender can not run in the hall very well in just socks. If you take away shoes for walking on the gym floor with shoes on, the person will not walk on the floor with shoes on because He has to be in socks. If you take away shoes for fogetting materials or leaving without permission, the person will not do that again because He would have to leave without his shoes. The goal is to solve the problem and keep the behavior from happening again. Shoe confiscation can do this for certain offenses.December 15, 2013 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #994368147Participant
Haftoro vaYeshev:- Am pair of shoes was more important than life.
We some years back had someone killed in Brooklyn Botanical Gardens just for a pair of shoes.December 15, 2013 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #994369Israeli ChutznikMember
I personally would probably have chosen the shoes, not because i really prefer it, but because that way my parents wouldn’t get involved.
Still, i agree with the teacher that it oversteps boundaries.December 16, 2013 10:08 am at 10:08 am #994370Yosef HatzadikMember
Think about what happened to me for a pair of shoes, and you’ll never force a kid to take his shoes off again.December 16, 2013 11:10 am at 11:10 am #994371Israeli ChutznikMember
by the way feter leibel the word is staying, not staiyingDecember 16, 2013 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #994372nfgo3Member
As I have said before: So many opinions … so little information. The opening poster has not revealed to us any of the following:
1. What her kid did wrong, and what efforts before the “confiscation” of shoes the camp took to bring the child into compliance with the rules. And whether the kid was punished on prior occasions for bad behavior.
2. How disruptive her child was to the other children in the camp.
3. Whether her child required medical attention following his perambulating on gravel.
4. Whether the camp still has the kid’s shoes or returned them.
The “confiscation” of shoes reminded me (and at least one other poster) of the Nazi confiscation of children’s shoes, as displayed so poignantly at the Yad Vashem museum. There is, however, a difference between confiscation by Nazis – who killed the children who owned the shoes because they were Jewish – and the confiscation by the camp counsellor, who was merely trying to make a child behave. Confiscation is a harsh world, and I question the opening poster’s judgment in using such a harsh word.
The opening poster’s complaint strikes me as part of a larger problem, i.e., parents who pay tuition – to camp, to school or to college – and think that their child does not have some obligations to abide by the rules of the institution, and are shocked when the institution disciplines their child, or gives him an unsatisfactory grade just because the kid failed to learn the subject matter. But, as I said, the opeing poster did not give us enough information to support my impression.December 16, 2013 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #994373🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
I had a teacher in first grade who would sometimes take shoes away from kids as a punishment. This was only done if a kid was being really unruly, and getting out of her seat several times during class. My teacher would tell her that she already had her recess during class, so she doesn’t have to have recess again. She would take the girls shoes to make sure that she doesn’t go out to the yard and the girl would get it back when recess was over. I remember being in an older grade and seeing that a girl went outside without her shoes… I found it to be really chutzpadig.December 17, 2013 9:29 am at 9:29 am #994374ZushyParticipant
nfgo3 – i think the OP was making a point, that independent of what the kid did, forcing a kid to walk outside in socks is not a fair punishment.
Popa made the point a little strongly in one of the pther threads about it.
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