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I feel so sick… I had a family in Kiryas Yoel and somewhere along the way on my way back home I went to catch Maariv by some small minyan, and I sat next to a a guy who happened to need to check his phone for 1 second. And this little kid, who’s not even Bar Mitzvah walks up to this guy from the other side of shul and tells him “Put away your phone, your in a shul”. I was shocked and embarrassed. The guy then says “Isn’t that chutzpah of you to say to somebody older then you”? the kid responds “The rabbanim say, you can’t take out your phone in a shul, and you must leave it at home”. The guy then asks what yeshiva do you go to the kid tells him, and the guy asks “They don’t teach derech eretz in ___________________? The kid then yells at the guy “SHHHHHH!!!!!!!”
So now I ask, how does a kid have the chutzpah to go up to someone, and, give him “Mussar”???????????
is that even normal??????????What if instead of a phone, the guy in the story pulled out a little portable TV and started watching a soap opera. Would your reaction be any different?
The problem is they are not trained sensitivity, tact. It is not so much the saying but how to say it. That is what derech eretz is. It is the time for Moshiach when the young have no respect for the elders ירהבו הנער בזקן.
The kid was 100% correct. It doesn’t matter who says it – if it is true then be Mekabel. Adults get insulted when a kid gives them Mussar? Why? One reason – ga’avah. I am pretty sure that this guy who “happened to HAVE to check his phone” would have had the exact same response to any adult who told him to put it away. Smart phones are a sickness and their addiction is bad. Admit it and get help.
If a child speaks truth, listen.
BMGGuy
This kid is 100% correct. His mitzvah of הוכח תוכיח might be characterized as based on חינוך. You might have an issue if he screamed it and caused the fellow embarrassment – really untactful. Meanwhile, if someone hears something that is in the direction of mussar, he needs to accept it whether it comes from a child, a goy, from random occurrences, or someone who is a בר חיובא in the mitzvah of תוכחה. Failing to heed the message is, in itself, an עברה. Why are you busy defending the בזיון to the בית הכנסת and the ציבור?
BMG Guy – you are SO correct! This kid’s message may have been right but the kid was wrong. And the idea that there are people condoning his behavior just because the adult was wrong is absurd. If the kid was sincere he would have found a much more humbling way of wording it, knowing he is giving mussar to an adult. The SHHH at the end does not fit in to any defendable category and probably confirms that the first words were no more sincere than the last. I don’t believe for a second a child who is sincere about wanting to prevent a bizayon in shul would ever shush an adult.
Why shouldn’t a man listen to a child?
Sometimes its not the message, but the messager or how the message is sent
They were both wrong
Rebyidd23, The reason he did not listen because it was said without respect. – “Put away your phone”
He also responded without respect.
Rebyidd23, so you believe that the same respect must be given to a child as an elderly person.
BMG-Guy, he is the child.
and I sat next to a a guy who happened to need to check his phone for 1 second
My friend suspects that it wasn’t actually the guy sitting next to you, that checking his phone wasn’t actually necessary, and that it was for more than one second.
DY – then it would be your responsibility to find out. You were told what the facts were but you are deciding that they were probably something else and basing the appropriateness of the response on your presumption. Teachers do that all the time – sorry, I mean bad teachers do that all the time and it can be very damaging.
Why should a child be more exempt from giving tochacha than from being nice?
” I agree that in shul it’s the time to talk to Hashem, but is it my business what the fellow next to me does? It’s none of my business. I go to shul to daven, Shoin!”
Baloney. It 100% most definitely is your, and every other Jew’s, business what the next Yid is up to. You are responsible for him, areivim zeh lzeh, not even mentioning the obligation of tochacha, you’re certainly responsible to care for his and every Yid’s spiritual wellbeing (ruchniyos) at least as much as his gashmius since his ruchniyos is even more important than his gashmiyus.
BMG_Guy: If you found out your child decided not to tell an adult that the cookie he was munching on came from a treif bakery, you wouldn’t be upset?
I marvel that you are stuck on the child either being rude or letting it go. If my kid was there he would easily have come to me and asked me, as an adult, to say something to the man. If there were no adults to ask, i have no doubt he would have said something respectful, apologizing for speaking out of turn and kind. He wouldnt argue back or shhh an adult. Is your inability to see more respectful options a product of not having any on the tip of your tongue? How then do you educate yourbown children to have respect?
BMG, because a child is not yet bar mitzvah.
the kid should have smashed his phone.
That would literally be a crime.
Syag Lchochma: If your kid would have brought the matter to your attention, would you have said something to the person?
Absolutely, if it was appropriate. But i would first make sure my kid had his facts straight and then find the most halachically appropriate way to say it.
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