Confusing Halacha, Minhag, Chumra, Shtus
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May 22, 2014 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm #612845wallflowerParticipant
Examples?May 22, 2014 11:43 pm at 11:43 pm #1206320the plumberMember
Holding first days of sfira.May 22, 2014 11:52 pm at 11:52 pm #1206321theshasMember
post test. will my account post…….May 23, 2014 1:21 am at 1:21 am #1206322charliehallParticipant
Halachah: Reciting Hallel on Yom Tov.
Minhag: Reciting Hallel on Rosh Chodesh.
Chumrah: Reciting Hallel in synagogue on the first two nights of Pesach in case you won’t say it at the seder. (Rema opposes this.)
Stus: Refusing to help your wife clean up because you have to recite Hallel at the seder while being totally oblivious to the fact that she, too, is chayev in Hallel at the seder.May 23, 2014 1:34 am at 1:34 am #1206323FriendInFlatbushParticipant
Halacha: One must make a bracha rishona on eating any amount of food.
Minhag: Eating in the sukkah on Shemini Atzeres
Chumra: Not eating gebrochts (baked matzah dipped in water or other liquidy substances) on Pesach.
Shtus: PBA’s rants.May 23, 2014 2:40 am at 2:40 am #1206324
FriendInFlatbush, succah on Shmini Atzeres is halachah.
Halachah: not drinking pig’s milk
Minhag: waiting six hours between meat and milk (for those who follow R’ma)
Chumrah (a tough one, because one man’s chumrah is another’s halachah): making kiddush only on unsweetened wine
Shtus: calling pba’s posts shtusMay 23, 2014 2:42 am at 2:42 am #1206325nishtdayngesheftParticipant
Halachah: Reciting Hallel on Yom Tov.
Minhag: Reciting Hallel on Rosh Chodesh.
Shtus: saying hallel on yom Hatzmaut.May 23, 2014 2:47 am at 2:47 am #1206326
Halacha: You may speak Lashon Hara.
Minhag: We do it anyhow.
Chumra: At least we don’t say the name.
Shtus: When you finish saying your piece you yell at the next guy, “Lashon Hara. Lashon Hara!”May 23, 2014 2:51 am at 2:51 am #1206327
Charlie, saying Hallel in Shul by night is an ancient Minhag which is mentioned in Maseches Sofrim, I think (perhaps Yerushalmi), and the reason is to say the Bracha on the whole Hallel. We don’t eat Karpas in Shul for fear of forgetting it later.May 23, 2014 2:57 am at 2:57 am #1206328
Halacha: You are supposed to follow the Minhag.
Minhag: To follow some Chumros.
Chumra: Be Choshesh even for a Shtus.
Shtus is unlimited.May 23, 2014 3:04 am at 3:04 am #1206329
Halacha: don’t overcharge your customer
Minhag: to charge whatever you can get
Chumrah: to overcharge but call it a sale
Shtus: the shiur at which the mekach is chozerMay 23, 2014 3:29 am at 3:29 am #1206330
lol @ DYMay 23, 2014 4:02 am at 4:02 am #1206331
HALACHA: To put Techeiles on a four cornered garment
MINHAG: People didn’t wear it for many years because they didn’t have it
CHUMRA: Making sure to only have white strings and a white beged
SHTUS: Not wearing Techeiles when we do have it because of the above chumra (which anyway wouldn’t apply for other reasons)May 23, 2014 8:14 am at 8:14 am #1206332
Halacha: tefach above knee is erva
Minhag: completely cover the knee
Chumra: 4 inches below
Shtus: I as a man a man or woman get to be the tznius police and determine everything else about this person based on how many inches her skirts are below the knee. I also get to say that if her skirt is just barely below her knee she is being nichshal the rabbimMay 23, 2014 9:31 am at 9:31 am #1206333takahmamashParticipant
FriendInFlatbush, succah on Shmini Atzeres is halachah.
Maybe in chu”l, certainly not in E”Y. In E”Y nobody eats in their sukka on Sh”A.May 23, 2014 12:16 pm at 12:16 pm #1206334
Or more commonly,
Halacha – My Psak.
Minhag – My Minhag.
Chumra – Your Psak.
Shtus – Your Minhag.May 23, 2014 12:29 pm at 12:29 pm #1206335gavra_at_workParticipant
Keep them coming 🙂May 23, 2014 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #1206336golferParticipant
One of the causes of all the shtus is poor reading comprehension when studying halacha. (Another is not bothering to study at all.)
So- interjection, let’s get your verbs in order.
She cannot be nichshal the rabbim no matter how short her skirts are.
She is being Machshil the rabbim who are then Nichshahl in a terrible aveira.May 23, 2014 12:50 pm at 12:50 pm #1206337PulsingFlowerMember
Halacha-not eating chametz on pesach.
Minhag- not eating kitniyos on pesach.
Chumra- not eating gebrokts on pesach.
Shtus- not eating matzah that has been in the same room as water on Pesach.May 23, 2014 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm #1206338🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Halacha – Guarding your eyes
Minhag – staying away from situations with potential exposure to things we shouldn’t see
Shtus – using the internet, especially unfiltered, because “I need it for work” or “I’m not one of those sheltered people who has no control over himself”May 23, 2014 1:00 pm at 1:00 pm #1206339🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Halacha – learning the halachos of bein adom l’chavero
Minhag – being over zealous of the mitzvos of bein adom l’Makom even if you hurt people
Shtus – thinking you’ll go to gan eden anywayMay 23, 2014 1:20 pm at 1:20 pm #1206341gavra_at_workParticipant
Halacha – Covering hair
Minhag – Shaving head
Chumrah – Cutting Shaitels short (could also be added to Shtus)
Shtus – Thinking that you will save the world by having a shorter shaitelMay 23, 2014 1:23 pm at 1:23 pm #1206342R.T.Participant
Halacha — Need to eat
Minhag — What to eat
Chumra — Not eating at all
Shtus — OvereatingMay 23, 2014 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #1206343
Interjection, I think you are confusing halachah with minhag (as I understand your post; maybe you can explain).
Syag, when unnecessary, being in a challenging situation is assur, not just Minhag.May 23, 2014 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #1206344oomisParticipant
FriendInFlatbush, succah on Shmini Atzeres is halachah.”
I believe that Chassidim do not hold by this. Shmini Atzeres is a separate holiday from Succos.May 23, 2014 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #1206345MachaaMakerMember
Pastur aval assur I agree with youMay 23, 2014 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #1206346MachaaMakerMember
Halacha- eating Cholent on shabbos
Minhag- eating Cholent on thursday night
Chumurah- eating Cholent on Sunday because of sfeika diyoma
Shuts- eating pareve Cholent at the above timesMay 23, 2014 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #1206347
I should clarify the chumra part of my earlier post:
CHUMRA: To be choshesh for the shita of min knaf and therefore only wear white strings and a white begged (when there is no Techeiles).May 23, 2014 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #1206348jackmMember
OOMIS – It is not up to chassidim to not hold by this.
It is a clear pesak in the gemara, rishonim and shulchan Orach with no one arguing.
Halacha is that shmeeni atzeres in chutz laretz, we EAT in THE sukkah both day and night but do not make a bercha
Chassidim came and changed the halacha plain and simple.
In fact, Rabbi Soleveitchik would jokingly say that when he would dispute a chassid, he would end the dispute by pointing to zeman tefilah and eating in a sukkah on shmeeni atzers….and this was a check mate as no chasid can answer the unanswerableMay 23, 2014 3:37 pm at 3:37 pm #1206349
Oomis, it’s a b’feirush’e halachah in Shulchan Aruch.May 23, 2014 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #1206350jbaldy22Member
I don’t eat in the succah on shmini atzeres and I am not chasidish …May 23, 2014 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #1206351
I believe that Chassidim do not hold by this. Shmini Atzeres is a separate holiday from Succos.
For non-chassidim, it is certainly halacha. The same way it is halacha for ashkenazim that chanan is assur by sh’ar issurim, even though sfardim disagree.May 23, 2014 4:35 pm at 4:35 pm #1206352
Halacha – Must eat in Succah on Shmini Atzeres.
Minhag – Don’t eat in Succah throughout Shmini Atzeres.
Chumra – Sleep in Succah on Shmini Atzeres.
Shtus – Eating in Succah with the Shlock down on ShA.May 23, 2014 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #1206353
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(Rashi ?”? ????)May 23, 2014 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #1206354chofetzchaimMember
“FriendInFlatbush, succah on Shmini Atzeres is halachah.”
Maybe in chu”l, certainly not in E”Y. In E”Y nobody eats in their sukka on Sh”A.
In Eretz Yisroel, the minhag (as far as I know) is that even those who keep 2 days of Yom Tov will eat inside on Sh”A because of lo sisgodidu. Eating outside in a sukka is a public display of Yom Tov while for the bnei EY it is assur to eat in the sukka because of baal tosif. That being said, in Chofetz Chaim the sukka is in the middle of the building not viewable to the public so they do eat in the sukka. I have heard that even if your “family minhag” is to eat inside, this is a minhag ta’us and you should eat in the sukka.
(I don’t know if this applies to chasidim though I have heard that the whole reason for the chasidim not eating in the sukka on Sh”A is that in Europe it was freezing cold so they paskened to be meikel and eat inside for Yom Tov Sheini, this is the same reason they don’t sleep in the sukka – because their Rebbe didn’t sleep in the sukka which was because it was cold)May 23, 2014 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #1206355
In Eretz Yisroel, the minhag (as far as I know) is that even those who keep 2 days of Yom Tov will eat inside on Sh”A because of lo sisgodidu.
My yeshiva ate in the sukka on shemini atzeres, in Israel.May 23, 2014 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #1206356
“while for the bnei EY it is assur to eat in the sukka because of baal tosif”
According to Rava’s maskana it’s only bal tosif if you have kavana l’shem mitzva.May 23, 2014 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #1206357oyyoyyoyParticipant
Shtus- people keeping Chumrah instead of just Halachah are conceited
and shud just stay on the level of their parents Minhag and stop causing sinas chinamMay 23, 2014 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #1206358jbaldy22Member
I heard a story about rav ruderman ztl in which he was asked why he didn’t have long peyos he answered back (I am paraphrasing as I dont remember the exact words) that when he goes up to shomayim he didnt want them to say a yid like you who has such nice payos why didnt you keep all of these other chumros.May 23, 2014 10:41 pm at 10:41 pm #1206359oomisParticipant
OOMIS – It is not up to chassidim to not hold by this.”
JackM – Is it OK with you if my NON-Chassidic Rov paskened this way? Chassidim who do not eat in the succah on SH”A ahould have hakafos in shul both days of the last days of yom tov. Our family minhag was to make kiddush in the succah on SH”A, but to eat inside.
Clearly there are several opinions on this subject. And by the way, the halacha is to not eat chometz on Pesach, which is defined BY THE TORAH as something made from the five grains. So pray tell, why do we Ashkenazim not eat kitniyos? (Please don’t explain the reason – I already know it, I am just using this as an example). There are many things that people are certain are Halacha, and for SOME people, those things may very well BE the halacha, but not for others.
Some of them lead us to be more machmir and some lead us to be more meikeil. But we should be very careful before accusing someone else of it “not being up to” them to not hold by something. Perhaps it IS up to them, if their learned rov or rebbie says so.May 23, 2014 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #1206360
Halacha: Keeping minhagim.
Minhag: Doing chumras
Chumra: Doing shtus
Shtus: v’chazar hadin
Din: Halacha.May 25, 2014 2:38 am at 2:38 am #1206362To be or not to beMember
Halacha: anything written in shulchan aruch
Minhag: whatever my wife learnt in seminary
Chumra: me doing something that makes me feel holy at your expense
Shtus: your chumrasMay 25, 2014 3:20 am at 3:20 am #1206363
I have heard that even if your “family minhag” is to eat inside, this is a minhag ta’us and you should eat in the sukka.
I have heard the same. This seems to be the classic litvish approach.
I have heard that the whole reason for the chasidim not eating in the sukka on Sh”A is that in Europe it was freezing cold
Yes, Aruch Hashulchan.
Nice to see you chofetzchaim!May 25, 2014 3:54 am at 3:54 am #1206364
“I have heard that the whole reason for the chasidim not eating in the sukka on Sh”A is that in Europe it was freezing cold”
Which brings us back to my example where the whole reason for generations not wearing Techeiles was that they didn’t have it.May 25, 2014 4:02 am at 4:02 am #1206365iBump 2.0Participant
the following is a letter i sent into a paper in response to someone who taught his child that the halacha is that ones shaitel may not go past ones shoulders ( as per psak of rav…)
Dear person who teaches his daughter that ones shaitel may not go past her shoulders (and all others that do this type of thing):
let me tell you a story that im sure you know but is worth retelling since you seem to have forgotten some of the details. once opon a time there was a man named Adam and a women named Chava. and Hashem said to Adam : “do not eat from this certain tree for on the day you eat of it you will surely die”. then Adam went to Chava and said ” Hashem said not to eat from and not to touch this certain tree for on that day you will surely die”. then a snake came along and pushed Chava into the tree and she didnt die!! Then the snake told her ” well, you see that just like you didnt die from touching the tree, so too you will not surely die for eating from the tree for Hashem just is afraid of you eating from that tree”. then Chava ate from the tree and convinced Adam to eat from it…..
well im sure you know that this story ends with Adam and Chava being thrown out of Gan Eden and is the cause of all the pain and suffering in the world today, and why? Because Adam told Chava a Halacha that wasnt true!! I’m sure you can make the connection and see where Im going with this- DONT TEACH YOUR CHILDREN CHUMRAS AND PORTRAY THEM AS HALOCHOS! the results may c”v be disastrous, and im sure you can figure out what i mean by that.
wishing you and all of klal yisroel much hatzlocha in raising our children in the right way.
it wasnt printed….May 25, 2014 5:05 am at 5:05 am #1206366
Halacha: anything you and I both do
Minhag: anything I do but you don’t
Chumra: anything you do, but I don’t, which I understand
Shtus: anything you do, but I don’t, which I don’t understandMay 25, 2014 5:11 am at 5:11 am #1206367hanz keglParticipant
halacha: to have in mind hoya hoveh vyieh when saying hashems name
shtus: to daven again if you didntMay 25, 2014 5:47 am at 5:47 am #1206368catch yourselfParticipant
Forget the Halacha, Minhag and Chumra. I’m just here for the shtus.
Shtus: Thinking that it is the husband’s responsibility that his wife overworked herself in cleaning for Pesach, then forced herself to prepare a lavish meal that she knew there would not be time to eat, but served it anyway, and refuses to sit for Hallel because she’s too tired and won’t go to sleep with dishes in the sink.May 25, 2014 5:59 am at 5:59 am #1206369
Golfer: “So- interjection, let’s get your verbs in order.She cannot be nichshal the rabbim no matter how short her skirts are.She is being Machshil the rabbim who are then Nichshahl in a terrible aveira. “
I used an example that is halachically muttar even if it isnt accepted by every posek. At a certain pointa man is accountable for looking, irregardless of how shes dressed and if a woman was truly in pain with others standards of tznius, she would score a lot more points up there if she davened for them then if she spoke lashon hara about these women.
Daasyochid: I’m not exactly sure what each one means but my point remains the same.May 25, 2014 6:19 am at 6:19 am #1206370
Ibump, thats what all the bais yaakovs teach (im not sure how they all got the same misinformation) but really adam told chava that she cant eat and then she out the extra chumra on herself. I think a more appropriate life lesson to take from this story is to know yourself and to take baby steps with your avodas hashem.
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