Confusing Halacha, Minhag, Chumra, Shtus

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  • #612845
    wallflower
    Member

    Examples?

    #1206320
    the plumber
    Member

    Holding first days of sfira.

    #1206321
    theshas
    Member

    post test. will my account post…….

    #1206322
    charliehall
    Participant

    Halachah: Reciting Hallel on Yom Tov.

    Minhag: Reciting Hallel on Rosh Chodesh.

    Chumrah: Reciting Hallel in synagogue on the first two nights of Pesach in case you won’t say it at the seder. (Rema opposes this.)

    Stus: Refusing to help your wife clean up because you have to recite Hallel at the seder while being totally oblivious to the fact that she, too, is chayev in Hallel at the seder.

    #1206323
    FriendInFlatbush
    Participant

    Halacha: One must make a bracha rishona on eating any amount of food.

    Minhag: Eating in the sukkah on Shemini Atzeres

    Chumra: Not eating gebrochts (baked matzah dipped in water or other liquidy substances) on Pesach.

    Shtus: PBA’s rants.

    #1206324
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    FriendInFlatbush, succah on Shmini Atzeres is halachah.

    My list:

    Halachah: not drinking pig’s milk

    Minhag: waiting six hours between meat and milk (for those who follow R’ma)

    Chumrah (a tough one, because one man’s chumrah is another’s halachah): making kiddush only on unsweetened wine

    Shtus: calling pba’s posts shtus

    #1206325
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Halachah: Reciting Hallel on Yom Tov.

    Minhag: Reciting Hallel on Rosh Chodesh.

    Shtus: saying hallel on yom Hatzmaut.

    #1206326
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Halacha: You may speak Lashon Hara.

    Minhag: We do it anyhow.

    Chumra: At least we don’t say the name.

    Shtus: When you finish saying your piece you yell at the next guy, “Lashon Hara. Lashon Hara!”

    #1206327
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Charlie, saying Hallel in Shul by night is an ancient Minhag which is mentioned in Maseches Sofrim, I think (perhaps Yerushalmi), and the reason is to say the Bracha on the whole Hallel. We don’t eat Karpas in Shul for fear of forgetting it later.

    #1206328
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Halacha: You are supposed to follow the Minhag.

    Minhag: To follow some Chumros.

    Chumra: Be Choshesh even for a Shtus.

    Shtus is unlimited.

    #1206329
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Halacha: don’t overcharge your customer

    Minhag: to charge whatever you can get

    Chumrah: to overcharge but call it a sale

    Shtus: the shiur at which the mekach is chozer

    #1206330
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    lol @ DY

    #1206331
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    HALACHA: To put Techeiles on a four cornered garment

    MINHAG: People didn’t wear it for many years because they didn’t have it

    CHUMRA: Making sure to only have white strings and a white beged

    SHTUS: Not wearing Techeiles when we do have it because of the above chumra (which anyway wouldn’t apply for other reasons)

    #1206332
    interjection
    Participant

    Halacha: tefach above knee is erva

    Minhag: completely cover the knee

    Chumra: 4 inches below

    Shtus: I as a man a man or woman get to be the tznius police and determine everything else about this person based on how many inches her skirts are below the knee. I also get to say that if her skirt is just barely below her knee she is being nichshal the rabbim

    #1206333
    takahmamash
    Participant

    FriendInFlatbush, succah on Shmini Atzeres is halachah.

    Maybe in chu”l, certainly not in E”Y. In E”Y nobody eats in their sukka on Sh”A.

    #1206334
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Or more commonly,

    Halacha – My Psak.

    Minhag – My Minhag.

    Chumra – Your Psak.

    Shtus – Your Minhag.

    #1206335
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Keep them coming 🙂

    #1206336
    golfer
    Participant

    One of the causes of all the shtus is poor reading comprehension when studying halacha. (Another is not bothering to study at all.)

    So- interjection, let’s get your verbs in order.

    She cannot be nichshal the rabbim no matter how short her skirts are.

    She is being Machshil the rabbim who are then Nichshahl in a terrible aveira.

    #1206337

    Halacha-not eating chametz on pesach.

    Minhag- not eating kitniyos on pesach.

    Chumra- not eating gebrokts on pesach.

    Shtus- not eating matzah that has been in the same room as water on Pesach.

    #1206338
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Halacha – Guarding your eyes

    Minhag – staying away from situations with potential exposure to things we shouldn’t see

    Shtus – using the internet, especially unfiltered, because “I need it for work” or “I’m not one of those sheltered people who has no control over himself”

    #1206339
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Halacha – learning the halachos of bein adom l’chavero

    Minhag – being over zealous of the mitzvos of bein adom l’Makom even if you hurt people

    Shtus – thinking you’ll go to gan eden anyway

    #1206341
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Halacha – Covering hair

    Minhag – Shaving head

    Chumrah – Cutting Shaitels short (could also be added to Shtus)

    Shtus – Thinking that you will save the world by having a shorter shaitel

    #1206342
    R.T.
    Participant

    Halacha — Need to eat

    Minhag — What to eat

    Chumra — Not eating at all

    Shtus — Overeating

    #1206343
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Interjection, I think you are confusing halachah with minhag (as I understand your post; maybe you can explain).

    Syag, when unnecessary, being in a challenging situation is assur, not just Minhag.

    #1206344
    oomis
    Participant

    FriendInFlatbush, succah on Shmini Atzeres is halachah.”

    I believe that Chassidim do not hold by this. Shmini Atzeres is a separate holiday from Succos.

    #1206345
    MachaaMaker
    Member

    Pastur aval assur I agree with you

    #1206346
    MachaaMaker
    Member

    Halacha- eating Cholent on shabbos

    Minhag- eating Cholent on thursday night

    Chumurah- eating Cholent on Sunday because of sfeika diyoma

    Shuts- eating pareve Cholent at the above times

    #1206347
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    I should clarify the chumra part of my earlier post:

    CHUMRA: To be choshesh for the shita of min knaf and therefore only wear white strings and a white begged (when there is no Techeiles).

    #1206348
    jackm
    Member

    WOW!

    OOMIS – It is not up to chassidim to not hold by this.

    It is a clear pesak in the gemara, rishonim and shulchan Orach with no one arguing.

    Halacha is that shmeeni atzeres in chutz laretz, we EAT in THE sukkah both day and night but do not make a bercha

    Chassidim came and changed the halacha plain and simple.

    In fact, Rabbi Soleveitchik would jokingly say that when he would dispute a chassid, he would end the dispute by pointing to zeman tefilah and eating in a sukkah on shmeeni atzers….and this was a check mate as no chasid can answer the unanswerable

    #1206349
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Oomis, it’s a b’feirush’e halachah in Shulchan Aruch.

    #1206350
    jbaldy22
    Member

    DaasYochid

    I don’t eat in the succah on shmini atzeres and I am not chasidish …

    #1206351
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I believe that Chassidim do not hold by this. Shmini Atzeres is a separate holiday from Succos.

    For non-chassidim, it is certainly halacha. The same way it is halacha for ashkenazim that chanan is assur by sh’ar issurim, even though sfardim disagree.

    #1206352
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Oomis, absolutely.

    Halacha – Must eat in Succah on Shmini Atzeres.

    Minhag – Don’t eat in Succah throughout Shmini Atzeres.

    Chumra – Sleep in Succah on Shmini Atzeres.

    Shtus – Eating in Succah with the Shlock down on ShA.

    #1206353
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “???? ?????? ????? ????”

    (Rosh Hashana 28b)

    “???? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?????”

    (Rashi ?”? ????)

    #1206354
    chofetzchaim
    Member

    takahmamash wrote:

    “FriendInFlatbush, succah on Shmini Atzeres is halachah.”

    Maybe in chu”l, certainly not in E”Y. In E”Y nobody eats in their sukka on Sh”A.

    In Eretz Yisroel, the minhag (as far as I know) is that even those who keep 2 days of Yom Tov will eat inside on Sh”A because of lo sisgodidu. Eating outside in a sukka is a public display of Yom Tov while for the bnei EY it is assur to eat in the sukka because of baal tosif. That being said, in Chofetz Chaim the sukka is in the middle of the building not viewable to the public so they do eat in the sukka. I have heard that even if your “family minhag” is to eat inside, this is a minhag ta’us and you should eat in the sukka.

    (I don’t know if this applies to chasidim though I have heard that the whole reason for the chasidim not eating in the sukka on Sh”A is that in Europe it was freezing cold so they paskened to be meikel and eat inside for Yom Tov Sheini, this is the same reason they don’t sleep in the sukka – because their Rebbe didn’t sleep in the sukka which was because it was cold)

    #1206355
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    In Eretz Yisroel, the minhag (as far as I know) is that even those who keep 2 days of Yom Tov will eat inside on Sh”A because of lo sisgodidu.

    My yeshiva ate in the sukka on shemini atzeres, in Israel.

    #1206356
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “while for the bnei EY it is assur to eat in the sukka because of baal tosif”

    According to Rava’s maskana it’s only bal tosif if you have kavana l’shem mitzva.

    #1206357
    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    Shtus- people keeping Chumrah instead of just Halachah are conceited

    and shud just stay on the level of their parents Minhag and stop causing sinas chinam

    #1206358
    jbaldy22
    Member

    I heard a story about rav ruderman ztl in which he was asked why he didn’t have long peyos he answered back (I am paraphrasing as I dont remember the exact words) that when he goes up to shomayim he didnt want them to say a yid like you who has such nice payos why didnt you keep all of these other chumros.

    #1206359
    oomis
    Participant

    OOMIS – It is not up to chassidim to not hold by this.”

    JackM – Is it OK with you if my NON-Chassidic Rov paskened this way? Chassidim who do not eat in the succah on SH”A ahould have hakafos in shul both days of the last days of yom tov. Our family minhag was to make kiddush in the succah on SH”A, but to eat inside.

    Clearly there are several opinions on this subject. And by the way, the halacha is to not eat chometz on Pesach, which is defined BY THE TORAH as something made from the five grains. So pray tell, why do we Ashkenazim not eat kitniyos? (Please don’t explain the reason – I already know it, I am just using this as an example). There are many things that people are certain are Halacha, and for SOME people, those things may very well BE the halacha, but not for others.

    Some of them lead us to be more machmir and some lead us to be more meikeil. But we should be very careful before accusing someone else of it “not being up to” them to not hold by something. Perhaps it IS up to them, if their learned rov or rebbie says so.

    #1206360
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Halacha: Keeping minhagim.

    Minhag: Doing chumras

    Chumra: Doing shtus

    Shtus: v’chazar hadin

    Din: Halacha.

    #1206362

    Halacha: anything written in shulchan aruch

    Minhag: whatever my wife learnt in seminary

    Chumra: me doing something that makes me feel holy at your expense

    Shtus: your chumras

    #1206363
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I have heard that even if your “family minhag” is to eat inside, this is a minhag ta’us and you should eat in the sukka.

    I have heard the same. This seems to be the classic litvish approach.

    I have heard that the whole reason for the chasidim not eating in the sukka on Sh”A is that in Europe it was freezing cold

    Yes, Aruch Hashulchan.

    Nice to see you chofetzchaim!

    #1206364
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “I have heard that the whole reason for the chasidim not eating in the sukka on Sh”A is that in Europe it was freezing cold”

    Which brings us back to my example where the whole reason for generations not wearing Techeiles was that they didn’t have it.

    #1206365
    iBump 2.0
    Participant

    the following is a letter i sent into a paper in response to someone who taught his child that the halacha is that ones shaitel may not go past ones shoulders ( as per psak of rav…)

    Dear person who teaches his daughter that ones shaitel may not go past her shoulders (and all others that do this type of thing):

    let me tell you a story that im sure you know but is worth retelling since you seem to have forgotten some of the details. once opon a time there was a man named Adam and a women named Chava. and Hashem said to Adam : “do not eat from this certain tree for on the day you eat of it you will surely die”. then Adam went to Chava and said ” Hashem said not to eat from and not to touch this certain tree for on that day you will surely die”. then a snake came along and pushed Chava into the tree and she didnt die!! Then the snake told her ” well, you see that just like you didnt die from touching the tree, so too you will not surely die for eating from the tree for Hashem just is afraid of you eating from that tree”. then Chava ate from the tree and convinced Adam to eat from it…..

    well im sure you know that this story ends with Adam and Chava being thrown out of Gan Eden and is the cause of all the pain and suffering in the world today, and why? Because Adam told Chava a Halacha that wasnt true!! I’m sure you can make the connection and see where Im going with this- DONT TEACH YOUR CHILDREN CHUMRAS AND PORTRAY THEM AS HALOCHOS! the results may c”v be disastrous, and im sure you can figure out what i mean by that.

    wishing you and all of klal yisroel much hatzlocha in raising our children in the right way.

    it wasnt printed….

    #1206366
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Halacha: anything you and I both do

    Minhag: anything I do but you don’t

    Chumra: anything you do, but I don’t, which I understand

    Shtus: anything you do, but I don’t, which I don’t understand

    #1206367
    hanz kegl
    Participant

    halacha: to have in mind hoya hoveh vyieh when saying hashems name

    shtus: to daven again if you didnt

    #1206368
    catch yourself
    Participant

    Forget the Halacha, Minhag and Chumra. I’m just here for the shtus.

    Shtus: Thinking that it is the husband’s responsibility that his wife overworked herself in cleaning for Pesach, then forced herself to prepare a lavish meal that she knew there would not be time to eat, but served it anyway, and refuses to sit for Hallel because she’s too tired and won’t go to sleep with dishes in the sink.

    #1206369
    interjection
    Participant

    Golfer: “So- interjection, let’s get your verbs in order.She cannot be nichshal the rabbim no matter how short her skirts are.She is being Machshil the rabbim who are then Nichshahl in a terrible aveira. “

    I used an example that is halachically muttar even if it isnt accepted by every posek. At a certain pointa man is accountable for looking, irregardless of how shes dressed and if a woman was truly in pain with others standards of tznius, she would score a lot more points up there if she davened for them then if she spoke lashon hara about these women.

    Daasyochid: I’m not exactly sure what each one means but my point remains the same.

    #1206370
    interjection
    Participant

    Ibump, thats what all the bais yaakovs teach (im not sure how they all got the same misinformation) but really adam told chava that she cant eat and then she out the extra chumra on herself. I think a more appropriate life lesson to take from this story is to know yourself and to take baby steps with your avodas hashem.

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