November 12, 2021 7:12 am at 7:12 am #2027397
None of my opposition to chabad is affected by the kiruv or other “beautiful” things common in the chabad community. That is an emotional tactic to deflect criticism by saying – “how can you say a word against chabad, when we do so much good?” Shabsai tzvi initiated a massive BT movement as well…it really doesn’t matter if there’s bonafide avodah zara in the midst.
I was using the lubavitcher rebbe’s shift on an important issue – zionism – as an example of how he changed the mesorah, while claiming to be a direct chain from the besht, compared with the satmar rov who did no such thing.November 12, 2021 9:29 am at 9:29 am #2027482HaLeiViParticipant
A new approach to a new scenario is not a shift in Hashkafa. What zionist groups wanted and did in Europe before the war is entirely different from the new reality.
Unless you are Satmar and insist that Shalosh Shvuos are tantamount to Avoda Zara and worse than Chilul Shabbos, the whole issue with the movement was the havoc they caused and his they pulled thousands away from their their tradition.
Now, there is a state of Israel, and a country full of, and run by, Jewish people. This is not an organization. In fact, it is silly to call them Zionists. This is a title remembered mainly by the anti-Israel crew.
A Rebbe who is ממלא מקום is not merely a Rosh Yeshiva’s son who can repeat what his father said. He evaluates the scene, understands the true and inner motives of the previous rebbes, and decides accordingly.
There are strange things going on. Yes, it’s strange to me. However, this is an entire Kehilla. You aren’t getting then to nice away from where they are. It seems more about wrong semantics than anything else, anyhow. The ideas aren’t foreign to Chasidim, but others never publicly insist on such things and surely not with such terminology. But if you get where they are coming from, you can take their words for their original meaning.November 12, 2021 11:28 am at 11:28 am #2027516HaLeiViParticipant
If you’re going to equate Chabad to another religion then you aren’t having a serious discussion.November 12, 2021 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #2027581Yserbius123Participant
@HaLeiVi Even when many prominent Chabad people actively practice things that are in direct contradiction to Yiddishkeit?November 12, 2021 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #2027589
Comparisons between neo-chabad and Christianity are not merely a debating tactic, they are apparent, real and require us to evaluate how we view their positions of prominence in kashrus, giur, gitten, and tons moreNovember 12, 2021 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #2027590
Breslov has some things that appear “strange” to an outsider. Lelov used to give their rebbe an aliyah after he was niftar. Those don’t disqualify someone from being part of klal yisroel. The above issues do.November 12, 2021 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #2027423
I’m also looking at the core and what bodes for the future if one focuses on the superficial; the state “saved” us mainly from itself, having effectively closed off the sefardi lands and ignited the hatred of the Arabs. At its core it undermines all that we hold dear in its incessant, nauseating chilul Hashem every single second of every day that it proclaims that there is no Torah by klal yisroel cv”s. Chabad at its core is a personality cult which harbors avodah zara, whatever good is being done cannot erase that. It’s not a fine point of theology, it’s the very essence of Torah that is at stake.November 12, 2021 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #2027614Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
> lubavitcher rebbe’s shift on an important issue – zionism – as an example of how he changed the mesorah,
This is somewhat different from Shabsai Tzvi. While I realize this is an important nekudah to you, there are millions of shomer-shabbos Yidden and T’Ch who hold same position or even more radical.November 16, 2021 11:16 pm at 11:16 pm #2029483tunaisafishParticipant
Ive Gotta admit I’ve had some bad experiences with some bad chabadniks who went pretty crazy. I have a friend who joined Chabad but B’h he’s normal.
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