Congratulations Judge Roy Moore!

Home Forums Politics Congratulations Judge Roy Moore!

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  • #1371564
    Joseph
    Participant

    On a well deserved victory, for him, for Alabama, for the Senate and for America!

    #1371961
    Sam2
    Participant

    Are you joking? Roy Moore has stated, on the record, that he believes that Christian law comes before American law when he was a judge. How do you want him in the Senate?

    #1371974
    Joseph
    Participant

    Sam, if domestic U.S. law directly contradicted Halacha on a certain matter where American law required you do something that is assur, will you follow American law or Jewish law?

    #1371973
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Hey Sam…his comment was “God and Country in that order’ and executive branch should nullify any law that violated Christian beliefs….cabinet officers must affirm a belief in “a Christian-Judaic God”, a tzelem in all public buildings, etc….

    #1371979
    Joseph
    Participant

    He advocates having the Aseres Hadibros in all public courts, not a tzelem.

    #1371977
    Joseph
    Participant

    For the record, what Judge Moore stated was “I want to see virtue and morality returned to our country and God is the only source of our law, liberty and government.” In other words, he advocates enacting Biblical law into American law.

    #1371983
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    I won’t bother commenting further on this jerk….I think the Senate would be better off with Judge Judy

    #1371984
    akuperma
    Participant

    1. ” a tzelem in all public buildings” would offend Protestants

    2. The “Christian Right” has not be our enemy in this country in modern times, if it ever was. Unlike their cousins across the pond, American Christians (go back to Roger Williams in the 17th century) have generally supported Jewish civil rights. Now that Christians are a minority, and sometimes a persecuted minority, we have no reason not be encouraged by their electoral successes.

    3. Non-frum Jews, who dream of a universe “free from religion” will be outraged. Frankly, I would prefer a universe free from the secular fanatics who reject those of us who still “cling to religion” as they say. Senator Moore is as deplorable as they come, and its time that the deplorables (which includes us, like it or not) have a representative in the Congress.

    #1372115
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The Christian 10 commandments are different than the jewish 10 commandments

    #1372350
    DovidBT
    Participant

    He’s running for U.S. Senator, not king. Regardless of his goals, he’s not going to change any laws unless a lot of other Senators and Representatives agree with him.

    #1372357
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Akuperma

    “Senator Moore is as deplorable as they come, and its time that the deplorables (which includes us, like it or not) have a representative in the Congress.”

    The last time someone used that argument in relation to a Southern Judge was when an incredibly undistinguished judge (Harold Carlswell) with strong racist and misogynistic credentials was nominated to the Supreme Court to replace Justice Abe Fortas. In defense against charges that Carswell was at best “mediocre”, Senator Roman Hruska, an equally undistinguished Nebraska Republican, passionaltely made the following argument
    “…. there are a lot of mediocre people [in the United States] and we are entitled to a little representation too, aren’t we…. We can’t have all Brandeises, Frankfurters and Cardozos [on the Supreme Court}.”

    #1372535
    Joseph
    Participant

    Judge Moore is a true American hero. He will be a real asset to the United States Senate and a representative for all traditional Americans. He has proven his mettle with his history of firmly standing up for moral values.

    #1372732
    Sam2
    Participant

    לא תחנם?

    #1373927
    Joseph
    Participant

    It is quite ironic, isn’t it, that President Trump’s biggest antagonists here were suddenly supporters of the President’s endorsed candidate for this primary while more conservative voters supported the candidate, Judge Moore, not endorsed by the President.

    #1374327
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    In other words, he advocates enacting Biblical law into American law.

    Allow me to correct that for you.

    He advocates enacting Biblical law according to Christian understanding into American law.

    Given Judaism’s long and horrific history under states that where Christian religious law was the basis for the law of the land, I find it utterly amazing that any Jew with any sense of Jewish history would favor any step towards basing the law of the land on Christian religious doctrine.

    The Wolf

    #1374335
    jdf007
    Participant

    Wasn’t it, and still is, a bit near to the holiday for so many to argue based off of nothing more than heresay and web-blog gossip? I didn’t see anything in his 10 minute speech victory that is aligned with half of these posts. Nor did I see such things when I actually read some of his opinions, which are actually quite good on a religious freedom angle. Although I have not read ALL of his opinions, I’m not sure anyone has, but the ones I have seen were quite sound.

    #1374338
    akuperma
    Participant

    Gadolhador: Roman Hruska lived in a different era. Back then the Democratic party’s backbone were the “deplorables”. That was the era when Joseph Lieberman was a well known Democrat (they eventually kicked him out the party). And one should note that while Cardozo was a largely OTD who supported some Orthodox institutions, the other two justices you mention were Reform Jews who were not know for any sympathy for Orthodox Jews. What matter to us is people who will not oppose our existence, and that means conservatives. Secular liberals believe that frum Jews should have the exact same rights as religious Christians – which is no rights at all.

    #1375055
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Wolfishmusings, no Jew with any sense of Jewish history ever did favor any step towards basing the law of the land on Christian religious doctrine.

    #1375331
    Joseph
    Participant

    Wolf, the American Christians today in support of legally enacting religious based morality laws are far better for Jews and for general society than those who support (and have been successful over the last 50 years) in stripping the law in America from morality based law (permitting sodomy, toeiva marriage, public immodesty as even nudity, abortion, women in combat and other traditional male domains, etc.)

    The general societal sense of legally supported immorality certainly affects Yidden in this country.

    #1375379
    Avi K
    Participant

    Actually the Anglo-American political and legal traditions are based on a Xtian understanding of Tanach. All of the British and American philosophers were lovers of Tanach. John Selden even learned from Rabbi Menashe ben Yisrael. Atthe time ofthe Revolution every American college required students to learn Tanach in the original Hebrew (Madison, BTW, was fluent in the language). The argument over slavery was largely an argument between Protestant missionaries over the Tanach’s attitude towards the peculiar institution in general and black slavery (because of Ham’s curse) in particular.

    I personally have no problem with this. A Xtian America would be much better for Israel (as well as Jews in America) than a secular America. Personally though, I am hoping that the interface with Islam will bring both closer to the sheva mitzvot.

    #1375441
    Joseph
    Participant

    The same groups of people today opposed to morality laws are by and large politically and ideologically associated with positions opposing the religious rights of Orthodox Jews (and Christians.)

    #1375946
    Joseph
    Participant

    P.S. America is a Christian country. Check out the Declaration of Independence. And no Jew should antagonize our temporary hosts by telling them we are their equals or that this isn’t their country more than ours.

    #1376133
    Joseph
    Participant

    We’re in golus; not at home.

    #1376237
    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Joseph,
    As a judge you have the obligation to enforce the rules of the land.
    Separation of powers is what makes America great. Don’t just don’t get to decide to create laws, just to interpret and sometimes reflect on the constitutionality of a law. That’s it.

    If he believes he cannot be an American judge because he’s a Christian, he shouldn’t have applied for the job

    #1376264
    Joseph
    Participant

    Yitzchok, he doesn’t believe he can’t judge and he doesn’t purport to write or create law in his position as a judge. Indeed, it his ideological opponents on the left that are on the bench that are guilty of doing all that.

    And in any event, in his position as U.S. Senator it will, in fact, be his job to create law.

    #1376291
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Joe….”no Jew should antagonize our temporary hosts by telling them we are their equals or that this isn’t their country more than ours….”

    Yes, we should confront our hosts and tell them loudly and forcefully we ARE their equals and this IS as much our country as theirs, and we will push back against anyone who acts to the contrary.

    #1376411
    Avi K
    Participant

    Dor, do you daven for Hashem to return all of Am Yisrael to the USA? Do you think that the Bet HaMikdash will be built in Brooklyn, Monsey or Lakewood?

    #1376820
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Just a matter of time before this nitwit blames yesterday’s mass murder on the immorality of the residents of Las Vegas and the pritzus the City is known for (like he implied for the Orlando shooting, and other tragedies).

    #1376722
    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Joseph, good point about liberal activist judges. It’s terrible, and that’s why it’s more painful when I so cold conservative does the same thing.
    Since you’re a fan of his, I’m sure you know the reason why he was removed from the bench twice.
    That’s the definition of an activist judge

    #1377417
    Joseph
    Participant

    Yitzchok, it was the federal courts ordering the removal of the Ten Commandments from Judge Moore’s court (remember that SCOTUS has the Ten Commandments in their courtroom) and the court ordered legalization of toeiva marriage that was a matter of the liberal courts acting in an activist capacity by those higher judges, in lieu of the legislature that has the proper constitutional authority to enact laws — not the judges in robes that were creating new laws that they preferred rather than enforcing the actual laws that the Constitution reads. Judge Moore was, in fact, acting in sound recognition that the Constitution permits the Ten Commandments (note the number of religious paraphernalia the founding fathers put in government) and doesn’t require states to legalize toeiva.

    It is true that state judges must honor federal court rulings even when the federal court acted outside the law but under the flag of the law in pushing their activist agenda. But as a matter of principle and sound legal judgement, Judge Moore was on solid ground regarding the underlying Constitutional issues.

    #1377455
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Is “I so cold” supposed to be “a so called”?

    #1426328
    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Mwah-h-ha-ha!

    #1426409
    CS
    Participant

    I thought he lost

    #1426482
    iacisrmma
    Participant

    When this thread was started, Moore had one the runoff for the Republican nomination. It was not for the election yesterday. The threads are dated so you can tell when it was started.

    #1426698
    Meno
    Participant

    Is “I so cold” supposed to be “a so called”?

    I so cold

    #1426697
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    After hearing the seemingly endless stream of vile comments from this pedophile and racist, including blatantly anti-Semitic blood libels against Jews who don’t accept his ‘savior”, I would have expected the originator of this thread to crawl into a hole and disappear for a while. No such good fortune but at least the people of Alabama seem to agree that there is a point where you say enough is enough. I’m not expecting Alabama to become a blue state nor am I confident they can hold on to this Senate seat in the next election when a mainstream Republican is the candidate but at least for a moment in time, they followed the admonition of the great political philosopher (and basketball player), Alabama native Charles Barkley…”common Alabama, we’ve got to show the world we’re not a bunch of idiots”.

    #1426816
    Joseph
    Participant

    He lost because the Democrat dirty tricks machine of where one of their in-house outlets, the Washington Post, published false allegations against Moore, and its goal was successful.

    And Republicans were too timid to respond in-kind by planting false allegations against Moore’s opponent, as Republicans are afraid to return fire with fire since they think of themselves as gentlemen.

    #1426835
    Health
    Participant

    Joe – “He lost because the Democrat dirty tricks machine of where one of their in-house outlets, the Washington Post, published false allegations against Moore, and its goal was successful.”

    WRONG!
    He lost because moderate Republicans don’t trust him.
    He was twice thrown out from the Alabama Supreme Court!

    #1426934
    Joseph
    Participant

    So-called moderate Republicans are those too timid meckelech, who I referred to, that are afraid of looking bad by returning fire with fire.

    He was let go from the AL SC precisely for sticking up for the Ten Commandments (the first time) and sticking up for traditional marriage and against toeiva “marriage” (the second time.) That’s what America needs; not the meckelech who say “oy, the Supreme Court ruled against common sense and traditional values, so we must now all fall in line with the new immoral zeitsgeist.”

    #1427164
    Health
    Participant

    Joe -“sticking up for traditional marriage and against toeiva “marriage” (the second time.) That’s what America needs; not the meckelech who say “oy, the Supreme Court ruled against common sense and traditional values, so we must now all fall in line with the new immoral zeitsgeist.””

    WRONG Again!
    This country needs s/o who follows our LAWS! Otherwise we’ll end up like Nazi Germany!
    As far as Toivah, we need either SCOTUS to reverse their decision or an Amendment to the US Constitution!

    #1427276
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Health, following laws while ignoring morality is not going to prevent us ending up like Nazi Germany.

    #1427281
    akuperma
    Participant

    Moore was stabbed in the back by the Republican “establishment” (aka “Wall Street Republicans” or “Country Club Republicans”). For the Republicans to win, they need to bring together both the “establishment”, the Conservatives wing, and Trump’s “deplorables” base (who like Trump, could switch between parties). If the different wings of the Republicans can’t work together, and insist on opposing the other wing even after losing a primary, we have a socialist government in little more than three years (3 years, 1 month, eight day) with socialized medicine no choice of doctors allowed, the state makes all decisions, persecution of anyone who doesn’t support the LGBT agenda, a national policy of freedom “from” religion, and a deliberately weakened national defense that will help our (meaning the frum community’s ) enemies. Moore is a very typical Christian conservative charged with nothing worse than having dated teenagers when in his 30s (which is respectable in many cultures, including his own), and his betrayal by the Republican establishment suggests the Republicans need to “get their act together” fast.

    #1427380

    Joseph, what do you have to say about him publicly stating
    that he did not receive a salary from his charity while he
    actually did receive a considerable salary from it, a fact he
    did not feel the need to report to the IRS?
    (Also, harassing and dating are not the same thing.)

    #1427430
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    akuperma
    “Moore is a very typical Christian conservative charged with nothing worse than having dated teenagers when in his 30s (which is respectable in many cultures, including his own)”

    I’m not sure if you are serious. But just becasue it my be respectable in any cultures doesn tmake it acceptable.
    And he has many views that are not “typical Christian Conservative” let alone “very typical” including his belief that Muslims shouldnt be allowed to serve in congress, that the period of slavery “was great” that private acts between consenting adults should be regulated by the federal government. You very well may share these views, and that is obviously your rigt. but they cannot be described as “typical” views.

    #1427558
    Joseph
    Participant

    Random – From what I read, there is no legal requirement to report that kind of compensation. But even if true, that’s not the worst aveira.

    Ubiq – In New York State right through 2017 a 14 year old could legally marry (to anyone, of any older age.) NYS law specifically said so. In most states they don’t even have a minimum age for marriage. This idea that teenagers shouldn’t marry or have relationships with people in their thirties is very new even for the goyim in America. Not too long ago it was very common here. Until the end of WWII you could easily find American goyim marrying younger than 16; and in postwar America you still easily found 16 year old goyim marrying. (Actually, in the last 20 years just in NYS alone several thousand under 16 year olds got married.) Even today you constantly hear of rich very old goyim marrying very young girls. And by us Yidden Halacha makes very clear that it is supported and we see many many such examples throughout our history, including relatively very recently among Gedolim. 16 year olds frum Yidden marry today; and a few decades ago you easily found frum Yidden marrying younger than 16. My great-grandfather was in his upper 60s when he lost his first wife and remarried to a never married in her mid 20s. The Ribnitzer Rebbe was in at least his 70s when he remarried when she was in her 20s. She was only niftar a few years ago. The Chofetz Chaim’s young (second) rebbetzin was living in New York and passed away in the post-second world war period (and her kever is in Queens) .

    That’s all aside from the fact that the accusations against Moore, made 40 years after they didn’t happen and conveniently a few weeks before his election, on charges no one ever heard before and he was never accused before in his long career, when he’s in his 70s now, are false.

    #1427846

    Such accusations against many people are only coming out now,
    and it is common for them to be withheld for long periods of time.

    #1427847
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    joseph
    Im not clear on wha tour point is.

    If you are arguing that dating multiple teenagers, and molesting some of them is not a big deal, then whats the problem so the media reported it and it is no different than “rich very old goyim marrying very young girls.”

    Your argument seems a bit circular. He was maligned with “false allegations”. well if the allegations are “respectable” and “not uncommon” what is the big deal?

    At any rate, as mentioned even without these allegations. He is far from “mainstream”

    #1427901
    Joseph
    Participant

    My comment to you made only generic points regarding males in their thirties marrying or dating females in their teens. It didn’t connect that generic point to the Moore issue. The point was that there’s nothing inherently wrong with it, it is legal in America, it is halachic in Judaism and that both Americans and Yidden commonly did so until very recent times.

    About Moore all I said was that the accusations were false. They were made for the first time 40 years after they were claimed to have occurred. And even 40 years later it remains utterly unproven. In both America and in Torah Halacha an accused retains a presumption of innocence unless proven guilty. That hasn’t come even close to occurring.

    #1427911
    yehudayona
    Participant

    Joseph, unless you’re a navi, you have no way of knowing whether the accusations are true or false. Clearly a lot of people think they are true. There’s pretty good evidence that Moore’s claim that he didn’t even know his accusers is false. This isn’t a court case, so the presumption of innocence is irrelevant. I suspect that if a leftist had similar baggage, you’d be the first to ready the gallows.

    #1427951
    Joseph
    Participant

    He has no baggage. Hearing claims for the first time 40 years after the alleged incident, just before a political election, after an absolutely clean record on these types of accusations regarding things that were never heard against him in his 70 years, is no different than if some random persons made these same allegations against you to a media outlet.

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