Conservative sounds better for people with ADHD

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  • This topic has 19 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by Rebeli.
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  • #1989591
    Ephraim Becker
    Participant

    I have a very hard time saying every word of davening because of my ADHD. I’m watching a replay of a conservative live stream of kabbalat shabbat and they sing every tefilah. This sounds way better for people with ADHD to say every word of davening and not skip words like I do. Why can’t orthodox cater to people with ADHD?

    #1989659
    Shimon Nodel
    Participant

    I have ADHD. I personally prefer a minyan that’s not too slow and not too fast either. But what you want just seems like a major shlep. If you can’t say every word, then don’t! Keep to what’s absolutely required. It’s much better than having a miserable tfila every day.

    #1989675
    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Go to a Sefardi shul. They sing EVERYTHING

    #1989685
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The singing was eliminated by the orthodox because it was instututed by the reform.

    #1989803
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Say what you can at whatever speed is comfortable for you. Chazal bring down that the Ebeshter can understand teffilos offered at any speed so don’t be intimidated by those around you who seem to believe there is great yichus to be the first to take 3 steps back so that everyone knows they’ve completed the amidah before the shalicah tzibur or anyone else.

    #1989860

    I second the Sephardi idea. It was explained to me that this is simply a method of education – so that everyone can repeat after chazan and learn. Beats the tuition.

    For the issue of faster davening, just have a sefer (or ADHD-style, several seforim) that you can learn while others are still davening. Not only you got your bakashot before everyone else, you also support them thru learning!

    I have to admit to a shameful joke: a pashute yid asked me once why I am davening so fast. I replied that the Rav understands tefilah more, so he davens longer. I understand less, so I daven faster. He then suggested that I take a siddur with translation…. If you are that person and are reading this, please accept my sincere apologies.

    #1989850
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Davrning with a minyan is important, but it is an enhancement of davening. Saying the words is crucial, so even if you’re out of sync with the minyan, you’ll be getting the mitzvah of davening, if you want to sing the words to yourself to help focus. You can still answer amen yehei shmei rabbah, kedushah, borchu, unless you’re in the middle of shemoneh esrei. Furthermore, if you start at the same time as the minyan, many poskim hold that you are considered to have davened with a minyan even if you’re way behind or ahead of them. If given a choice between skipping words and being in a minyan, versus saying every word without a minyan, the choice is very clear – saying the words is the literal definition of davening, with only the 1st parshah of shma and the first brocho of shemoneh esrei being crucial to have in mind what the words mean. Everything else is an enhancement, important as it may be.

    The overwhelming majority of conservative jews do not pray more than once a week, so it’s not an inconvenience for them to sing everything, since they’ll be out of temple afterwards, back to their car or phone or whatever else they do on shabbos r”l.

    For people like yourself who want to say every word every day, three times a day, such a thing is very difficult for a lot of people who want to not spend more than 45 minutes by shacharis etc, but it is correct that sefardim sing almost everything out loud, so that would definitely be an option. If it means being able to daven properly, I’m pretty sure a Rov will tell you you’re allowed to change your nusach to sefardi, since the alternative is skipping words.

    #1989855
    Leiby Wasser
    Participant

    Try davening in a Yekke or Sefardi minyan, where they also do a lot of slow singing in unison. It will take time to learn the nusach, but you will grow to love it, and it is certainly better than davening in a Conservative Synagogue. (Better not to daven at all than to daven in a Conservative place.)

    #1989896
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Correction; i meant to say earlier that you get the mitzvah of davening with a minyan if you are *behind*, not if you’re *ahead” of everyone… I don’t know how to edit posts on here, so…

    #1989962
    Ephraim Becker
    Participant

    Sefardim don’t sing during the weekdays

    #1989986
    ujm
    Participant

    You need to go to a Karlin-Stolin minyan. Issue resolved.

    #1990003
    motchah11
    Participant

    We don’t sing by davening in Karlin-Stolin, and we daven rather quickly, so I don’t see how that would help him at all.

    #1990008
    ujm
    Participant

    Yes, but you scream the ENTIRE davening out loud.

    #1990060
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    UJM,

    Motcha’s comment remains. Your comment makes no sense.

    #1990071
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Ephraim Becker,

    “I’m watching a replay of a conservative live stream of kabbalat shabbat and they sing every tefilah.”

    I grew up going to a conservative synagogue, and can tell you that they most definitely do not sing every tefilla. Yes their Friday night services are mostly singing, but of the first six tehillim that are said during kabbalas Shabbos, they take maybe two or three pesukum from them and make repetitive songs out of them, and skip everything else. When I was young I didn’t even understand why there was so much stuff in the prayer book between the songs that made it difficult to find the right pages. Lecha Dodi they may do every other stanza, or the first two and the last. As for Shabbos maariv, the more “traditional” conservative services will not be much different from the Orthodox in terms of what’s sung, while the less traditional will just do to maariv what they did to kabbalas Shabbos. Conservative and reform services are more akin to a musical performance and a sermon preaching the liberal issue du jour than to davening to Hashem, and they think the solution to getting better engagement from the congregants is to add a more gevaldig “bim bam shabbat shalom” song and “mi kamocha” with pizazz to their service. Also, unfortunately, the conservative services are not planned out with the thought that the congregants are going home to eat a Shabbos seuda. Growing up, we ate before going, and I went to bed right after.

    “This sounds way better for people with ADHD to say every word of davening and not skip words like I do. Why can’t orthodox cater to people with ADHD?”

    By weekday davening at my shul, shacharis lasts about 40 minutes with no leining, and around 50-55 minutes when there is leining. Mincha and maariv are each around 20 minutes. That’s around an hour and a half for davening per day, and that’s without singing. Add singing and the davening would be considerably longer, and would be very difficult for people to do while needing to get to work or bring their kids to school, or help with supper and bedtime. Shabbos morning davenings are longer and incorporate more singing, but it would be a considerable tircha to let the services go past midday when people are hungry, and it’s even possibly halachically problematic. By Friday night there are “ruach/Carlebach” kabbalos Shabbos minyans around that sing a lot more, but many people don’t want to delay their seuda and can’t make an early Shabbos due to work. Perhaps you can start a minyan with more singing, especially for Friday nights. Weekdays would be more challenging.

    #1990101
    Ephraim Becker
    Participant

    People with autism that go to dayhab and don’t work can benefit from a singing weekday minyan or the summer.

    #1990105
    ujm
    Participant

    Can’t they have specialized minyanim at the dayhab?

    #1990321
    Ephraim Becker
    Participant

    They’re not really any orthodox Jewish autism specific programs.

    #1994838
    Rivkah_P
    Participant

    Grew up Conservative and w/ADHD and have several things to say about this:
    1. We didn’t sing everything but a lot was sung
    2. Because there was so much singing it ran super long and I could never sit through all of shul. When I became Orthodox I was suprised to find that I could actually sit through all of shul. Different strokes for different (ADHD) folks, I guess.

    #1995011
    Rebeli
    Participant

    I also have adhd, Singing in shul will only be easy and nice for a while , people with adhd tend to get bored of things a lot quicker than people without adhd. What your suggesting is only a temporary thing and will not resolve the issue- back to square 1

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