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Are they all lies?
Who cares?
Who said miracles can only happen to Jews?
If I understand correctly, some of the Xian miracle stories involve someone who prayed to a deceased “saint,” or at least asked the “saint” to pray on their behalf, who then claims to be miraculously healed.
Could G-d miraculously heal someone, even if that person never prayed to anyone, or even if that person did something they shouldn’t do (like praying to a dead person)? Of course — G-d can do anything. So it’s possible some of the miraculous recoveries really did happen. But we have no reason to believe that praying to that “saint” was the cause of the miracle.
It’s also quite possible they weren’t miracles at all. People are diagnosed with deadly diseases, which then inexplicably go away, all the time. Misdiagnosis could be the culprit. But the human body is also a mysterious thing. Some medical researchers believe, for example, that cancer is more common that we think, and that many, perhaps most people get cancer here and there, which then goes away on its own without causing any harm.
They may be lies; they may be true, but exaggerated; there maybe miracles from the impure sources, like Paroh’s magicians.
Tamim Tehiyeh…
Miracles should be of no consequence. Even the Jews ignored Moshe when he first came and performed miracles. He had to say “Pakod…”
Hashem can do miracles for anyone who deserves it. Hashem loves all His creations and wants to bestow goodness on all of them. If a non Jew keeps the sheva mitzvos bnei noach he is a tzaddik and deserves miracles. If anything I would say its much much easier for a non Jew to merit miracles.
Was Iyov Jewish? Sure, he suffered tremendously at the beginning, but look at the conclusion of the Sefer.
Was Iyov Jewish? Sure, he suffered tremendously at the beginning, but look at the conclusion of the Sefer.
There is an opinion in the Gemorah that he never existed
Talmud,
What they attribute to their “savior” we would attribute to G-d. When you read an account of an event you have to separate the facts presented and the interpretation of those facts by the person giving over the account.
Zahavasdad,
A friend of mine once said “the greatest of the issurin Iyov suffered was that after all that suffering, some people say he didn’t even exist!”
“There is an opinion in the Gemorah that he never existed”
I am aware of that opinion. But it flies in the face of Chazal who say he was in Paroh’s court of 3 advisors.
R.T.: It doesn’t fly in the face of anything. There are separate Midrashim. Chazal had a right to argue on each other. Both opinions are equally valid.
I don’t like this thread.
talmud
Tzaddik gozer vHakadosh Baruch Hu Mekayem. I don’t think there are many or any stories by the non Jews like the ones we have. Yes there may be some miracles that happen to individuals like miraculously surviving a car accident…but they don’t have Tzaddikim stories.
Talmud,
Your emunah should not be based on miracles. It should be based on intellect and personal experience and growth. That being said they can still strengthen your emunah against those who deny the Divine altogether.
EXPLAIN emunah based on personal growth.
talmud –
They pray to the same source as you. They just cc someone else too. Or in the words of the Rema (OC 156): ?????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ???? ???.
Veltz,
When a person commits themselves to adhering to the halacha in certain areas and finds that he becomes a better person as to those areas it strengthens his emunah that the Torah system works and by extension is more likely to be divine.
So if a person finds he has anger issues and suppresses his anger in various situations in an attempt to follow the halacha and mussar, and then over the course of time finds that he no longer gets angry altogether, he concludes that he has fixed (to a degree at least) a character trait through Torah.
“There is an opinion in the Gemorah that he never existed”
I am aware of that opinion. But it flies in the face of Chazal who say he was in Paroh’s court of 3 advisors
The Gemorah IS Chazal
That opinion is rejected in the Gemara- bava Basra 15b.
The Rambam and others explicitly maintan that opinion. See the Ramban in the beginning of Iyov (who himself has a different view).
“but they don’t have Tzaddikim stories”
Yes they do. Only they don’t call them Tzadikim, they call them saints.
This is the problem of Rebbishe Maysis. Our Emunah has to be stronger than stories. Yes Rebbes know, and so do all GEdolim know, but our Emunah in the Eibishter is stronger than all the mayselach
“That opinion is rejected in the Gemara- bava Basra 15b.”
As is the opinion that he lived biy’mei moshe.
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