Copying Music Redux

“I was wondering about this. Particularly the halachic reasoning it is permitted to copy music that is no longer being sold”

It still violates secular law — it is considered theft. The copyright owner may have a reason for withdrawing the item from the market and we should respect that.

First of all, for the record, I didn’t quote Rav Belsky, I found this piece from Rabbi Moishe Dovid Lebovits (Halachically Speaking) on this site (with help from Cherrybim from the Copying CDs thread.) It doesn’t say that this p’sak is from Rav Belsky, it says, “(footnote 96) Refer to Igros Moshe O.C. 4:40:19.”, and that the piece was “Reviewed by Rabbi Benzion Schiffenbauer Shlita”.

What may be inferred from that Igros Moshe is that it would be midas s’dom for the originator of the recording to be makpid if he does not stand to profit. If I understand correctly, it would still be assur to copy a recording which is currently for sale even if one is certain that he would not purchase it.*

It’s also possible that one is allowed to assume that the original producer is not makpid since he no longer sells it (likely, he would be flattered to know that some people are still interested in his music!).

Regarding Charlie Hall’s point, (possible hakpada for other reasons) R’ Moshe addresses this regarding divrei Torah and says that the maggid shiur may later find his piece faulty and be embarrassed if it’s available publicly. It’s doubtful if that’s the case here, it’s probably just not a marketable item at this point in time.

* A young bachur once told me the following story about himself. He copied his married brother’s CD, rationalizing that it was an unusual style of Jewish music which he would certainly never purchase. His copy broke, so he asked his brother to borrow it again, but it too had broken. He then went to the store and bought it! He then realized that it’s impossible to be certain that a recording that you do find worthwhile to have, you would never buy.

I just took a look at the thread which started this, and apparently, Dr. Miller has been contacted about whether he’s makpid or not, so hopefully, my theories will be a moot point and we’ll find out his wishes.

According to my reading of the Igros Moshe, even if he’s makpid, it might be mutar, but I would ask a shaila first.

I just read it. It seems that if it’s not being sold, it would be okay to copy it, and if it is being sold, you can copy for yourself if you bought it, but not for others or from others, and there is no acceptable rationalization that “I would not have bought it anyway”.

It seems to concede if in fact you would never have bought it (for whatever reasons), it would be permissible. But he feels that if it is still being sold, it is unfair to think you would not have otherwise purchased it.

In other words, in theory, yes, but in practice, no. As one rov reportedly told someone who asked if he could copy a CD since he wouldn’t buy it anyway, “of course you wouldn’t buy it since you could copy it!”.

Re: apushatayid post.

***What you are really saying is “why buy it, if I can get it free!” which goes back to the point of taking away a sale from someone.***

Is there a leniency for copying music that a person would have no interest in buying themselves? Let’s say the person only has so much money and is not interested in your style of music and you’re introducing them to it or it’s not a money question it’s just they would absolutely never buy it but you think it would be good for them to hear.

Personally it took me awhile to get used to Jewish music. If we wanted to use this as a kiruv tool would it be not allowed to buy a copy but then distribute it to people who at this stage wouldn’t buy it? In a way you’re possibly increasing Jewish sales of music in the future.

Thanks for your answers.

In a way you’re possibly increasing Jewish sales of music in the future.

The same thing could be said for any music. Yet the secular music industry has spent millions of dollars to cut down on copying. They seem to feel that they make more money if no one copies.