July 8, 2021 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #1989861bigmosheParticipant
The cost of living has been going up and the pay of most people has not . I am trying to understand a simple thing. I have boys and girls and bH send them to wonderful yeshivas and bais yakoovs . I am preparing for the upcoming school year .I don’t understand the reason that girls school uniforms have to be so expensive. I understand that the schools ” must ” have uniforms. but why is the ocst of skirt almost double that of nonfrum school uniforms. please don’t tell me that there is more material etc.. That is not a real answer.July 9, 2021 12:53 am at 12:53 am #1989900
Same reason that kosher food costs more than trief food.July 9, 2021 8:28 am at 8:28 am #1989959
I didn’t know uniforms have a mashgiach presiding over them to make sure they’re kosher, or that there’s a vaad that takes their dues biyearly
Wow you learn something new every dayJuly 9, 2021 8:36 am at 8:36 am #1989972
The cost of the masgiach/hechsher is NOT the reason for most of the extra cost of kosher versus treif.July 9, 2021 9:22 am at 9:22 am #1989985
And how do you know that? Are you involved with hashgacha?July 9, 2021 10:25 am at 10:25 am #1989995Sam KleinParticipant
Lots of things in life are expensive.
Make your life more affordable today by starting immediately today with making a budget with your spouse of keeping an account of ALL you expenses AND YOUR INCOME TOO so you can see at the end of the month and year etc… If you’re just making ends meet or are you even boruch Hashem able to put away money towards future savings of your children’s Shidduchim or college etc…. Or vice versa C”V spending too much on extras and going into dept….
You can avoid going into dept by living with one sentence
“GET WHAT YOU NEED NOT WHAT YOU WANT”
i.e. sure we all need a vacation and a date night out to the restaurant but there’s lots of local affordable vacations versus flying out to Florida or Israel etc…… With your entire family and paying the large bill. We call all use a restaurant date but to go out just to grab a bite us called crazy.
May Hashem give you lots of HatzlachaJuly 9, 2021 10:26 am at 10:26 am #1989991akupermaParticipant
Unless the school uniform represents lower costs that what the student would normally wear (as occur in situations where the students would choose to wear expensive clothing), they aren’t justifiable and the money spent on them is a waste of the community’s assets better spent on Torah education (lower tuition, better pay for teachers, etc.). A dress code would be just as useful, and would not divert resources from Torah education. One should note that without wearing uniforms, and with no official dress code, frum adults seem to manage to dress quite uniformly.July 9, 2021 10:26 am at 10:26 am #1989989
I know the cost of a mashgiach and hechsher. That doesn’t explain the cost differential between kosher and treif.July 9, 2021 11:13 am at 11:13 am #1990011
And I know the cost too (I’m a mashgiach myself) and I know a mashgiach that gets paid 100,000 a year and that’s in a supermarketJuly 9, 2021 11:29 am at 11:29 am #1990015
CA, how much are *you* paid? I’ll bet it isn’t enough to explain most of the cost differential between kosher and treif. 100k is definitely an extreme on the high side.
akuperma: What you wrote is true for men/boys but not for women/girls.July 9, 2021 11:30 am at 11:30 am #1990016
You also have to add all the overhead (on addition to the mashgiach for the product and the mashgiach for the storeJuly 9, 2021 11:31 am at 11:31 am #1990021
When there is a short supply and the demand is great prices riise.July 9, 2021 11:33 am at 11:33 am #1990026
Reb Eliezer hit the nail on the head. Bingo.July 9, 2021 11:40 am at 11:40 am #1990030
Totally not. That’s the general rule rule but not in kashrus. It has been explained to me that kashrus requires more salaries and exclusive equipment and interrupted runs during kashering, shopping to smaller cities etc, but mostly the products aren’t sold in enough quantity to warrant low prices. Why do you think mcdonalds can sell for so cheap? Because their meat distributors buy product by the millions, not hundreds. And food chain prices are lower than small shops. Everything gets discounted when you order more.July 9, 2021 12:09 pm at 12:09 pm #1990042
Syag, you restated Reb Eliezer’s point in a much wordier way.July 9, 2021 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #1990046
NopeJuly 9, 2021 1:04 pm at 1:04 pm #1990050GadolhadorahParticipant
There is some special shatnez that must be performed for girls’ school uniforms and the only approved testing center is run by the shver of the mashgiach referenced above making $100k annually.July 9, 2021 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm #1990059nishtdayngesheftParticipant
I am sure you find your comment amusing. I suspect you think that those involved in hashgocha should not be paid for their expertise. Nor should someone who tests for shatnez. Because that only a Frumie thing.
While neither item relates to the cost of uniforms. As mentioned above by Syag, there weren’t the economies of scale to lower the prices. Which is very different from what RE said.July 9, 2021 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #1990064
The gemora Yoma (83,1) calls Shabsai the Fruit Collector a rasha for storing fruits to raise the price TjJuly 9, 2021 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #1990069
above, to raise the price. The Magen Avraham in the begining of Hilchas Shabbos allows to boycott eating fish on shabbos to lower the price.July 9, 2021 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #1990091
RebE, yes, there are multiple other cases of boycotting high prices, including Manischewitz in NY, I think in 1930s. The answer might be for school to give people a little leeway and require some overall standard rather than a specific uniform that is produced by one manufacturer and sold by one store.July 9, 2021 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #1990092
Sounds like my answer got swallowed by internet or censored. Let me try again:
How ’bout notJuly 9, 2021 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #1990097
“rather than a specific uniform that is produced by one manufacturer and sold by one store.”
So does the fact that this isn’t true bother you at all or does your disparging bais yakov schools and their communities override truth here too? I mean i know you were disappointed when not enough people died in our specific shuls to support your theory, as evidrnced by your refusal to refute that claim. But do you also just dislike everything about them applying unhealthy, inappropriate stereotypes about crooked money and welfare incomes?July 9, 2021 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #1990102
Maybe if i knew you and your story i would be more tolerant, perhaps you are surrounded by this type of talk snd are unaware how damaging/untrue it is.July 9, 2021 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1990111
why can’t the author pass uniforms from older kids to younger ones or exchange with neighbors?July 9, 2021 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1990110
Syag, whom did I disparage? Am I misjudging what the typical policies are? Maybe it is different in different places and I am going from our experience. My kids were at BY and had to buy relatively expensive uniform from a specific store with a logo. Another school gave more leeway within the tznius guidelines. If you limit the competition, you get higher prices. I am not calling for non-tznius clothes.
Maybe you are making worst assumptions when reading my posts for some reason. Just don’t read the name of the poster before reading the post for better digestion.July 9, 2021 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #1990115
All said, I am not aware of schools where clothing is a significant item comparing with tuition. What’s the deal?July 9, 2021 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #1990119
“Am I misjudging what the typical policies are?”
“My kids were at BY and had to buy relatively expensive uniform from a specific store with a logo”
I have no reason to assume you are making that up but i have never seen a logo on a bais yakov shirt. I would assume you live in a more remote area and that also would explain the singular outlet.
We have one distributor but we can order from sny place online and if the non jewish site wants to provide a long enough skirt, that works too. Lands end button downs worked well for the high school. We also have a uniform exchange where anyone could give or get used uniforms.
“Just don’t read the name of the poster before reading the post for better digestion.”
Believe it or not i do! But i always know it’s you 😄
As I’ve tried explaining before, unfortunately without success, it’s not always my interpretation, it’s comments you make that you don’t know are wrong. Probably based on minimal exposure and getting your info from non bais yakov types (that part is my assumption)
For example (i can always try…)
If you don’t know black people, and you mostly know about them from racisty types, you may walk up to a black coworker in ALL SINCERITY and say,”i heard you like fried chicken and watermelon, can i offer you some” He will be livid and you will tell him he is reading you wrong. That’s what you sometimes do here too.July 9, 2021 7:52 pm at 7:52 pm #1990118
I consulted an expert (my oldest daughter), she says – uniforms (especially for girls) save a lot of money for parents. Otherwise, they’ll buy tons of different clothes! So, thanks for the uniforms and for the wisdom of children.July 9, 2021 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #1990117
Pesachim 112a: Rabbi Akiva, who said: Make your Shabbat like an ordinary weekday and do not be beholden to other beings. If one is unable to honor Shabbat without financial help from others, it is better for him to save money and eat his Shabbat meals as he would on a weekday rather than rely on other people.
this should apply to clothing also.July 9, 2021 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #1990122
Smart girl 😊July 9, 2021 8:03 pm at 8:03 pm #1990125
That has absolutely no connection to this conversation.
Unless, of course, you are doing EXACTLY what i mentioned above and are making racist assumptions about these posters incomes and spending (like all good anti yeshivish do) . Deliberate? Accidental? You tell me…July 10, 2021 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #1990178
It says that the 15th of Av was celebrated as the girls put white dresses on and everyone, even if they had, would borrow from the other in order not to ashame does who do not have. This is the person of uniforms, so they are not suppuse to cost so much.July 10, 2021 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #1990179
Syag > That has absolutely no connection to this conversation
Sorry for the enigmatic statement. Our esteemed Mods (whom I respect a lot for their hard work!) found my post offensive twice. So, I divided it in 3 parts and posted them separately to understand which one is not kosher. All 3 passed.
And there is nothing “racist”. I’ve been dirt poor, I am not looking down on someone who is, I am just making a suggestion on how to behave. As I am glad to hear from your other posts, this is exactly what you do – ordering online and having uniform exchange. Great.July 10, 2021 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #1990191
So basically you were doing just what i said. Nobody mentioned being poor. You are making assumptions about people because of stereotypes. And not even aware of doing it.July 11, 2021 9:47 am at 9:47 am #1990353
Syag, if you pay say 5000 tuition, would you complain about 100 shirt? You know the story about someone who asked a Rav whether he can do arba kosot with milk? The Rav gave him money to buy not only wine, but meat also. Listen carefully to people instead of stereotyping!July 11, 2021 9:58 am at 9:58 am #1990357
You have got to be kidding! Of course you would. I was talking to a friend who spends more on a shabbos meals than i do on my vacations and she told her daughter she can’t fly to visit a friend unless ahe finds a cheap ticket. And she specified under $100. I hear them complain about school related costs all the time as well as regular expenses. The difference is she wants to buy each kid 5 of them and i was only aiming to buy 2. Which is totally her right. Why does having money for a shirt exclude you from complaining about the cost?July 11, 2021 9:59 am at 9:59 am #1990359
In regards to your milk story:
The man asked the rav if he could have permission to fulfill the mitzva of wine by using milk. That is a far cry from someone complaining about the cost of a standing rib roast and choosing to serve london broil instead.
Listen and process.July 11, 2021 11:48 am at 11:48 am #1990384
Above reply #1990178 should be purpose of uniforms, so they are not suppose to cost so much.July 11, 2021 11:55 am at 11:55 am #1990393
Syag, the writer has a subject cost of living and talks about shirts for say 5 kids for $500 and not $25k for their tuition. You think this is just because he likes to complaint. Fine, then he doesn’t need our advice. If he is still here, he might clarify.
I agree with your friend on teaching frugality. Besides general middos, there’s a practical issue that kids might not be able to afford the same lifestyle based on their own earnings. I know of a billionaire who had his college aged son helping serve dishes to people at the end of the table ( me) at the yeshiva dinner in the honor of the big donation from the father.July 11, 2021 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm #1990402
I don’t know why i keep doing this. We are obviously operating on different wavelengths. I can’t clarify anything because you take illustrations as new topics of conversation and get further and further from the point.
If someone decides to talk about the cost of uniforms instead of the cost of tuition it doesn’t mean he doesn’t pay tuition. Where do you get these crazy conclusions from? The cost of uniforms is indeed over the top. No matter where you go. But that does not support your earlier claim that there is only one source. And it is an issued shared by everyone accross socioeconomic barriers if they attend such a school. So it could be that his reason for asking about uniforms was not because he is mooching tuition money off of people so it’s not a bother, but rather because he wanted to have a discussion about it.July 11, 2021 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm #1990404
And even more likely, as in the case of others who join the forum to post a topic and then disappear, it might just be a bored teenager.July 11, 2021 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #1990419
RebE, uniforms for tu bAv is a good example, but even then there were limitations: king’s daughter will wear kohen godols daughter’s dress, etc. Maybe the message is to try to improve gradually and not plan for total equity, then people will accept it.July 11, 2021 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #1990483commonsaychelParticipant
@Syag “And even more likely, as in the case of others who join the forum to post a topic and then disappear, it might just be a bored teenager.”
If it walks like duck and quacks like a duck, its a duckJuly 11, 2021 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #1990486
The girls are exempt of uniforms on Rosh Chodash as it is a holiday given to them as a reward for being the first to contribute by the mishkan and not contribute by the eigal.July 11, 2021 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #1990501commonsaychelParticipant
Reb E for CR of the CRJuly 11, 2021 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #1990522yuda the maccabiParticipant
when it comes to prices the answer always is supply and demand
since they’re supplying they can ask for as much as they think you will pay
and there is demand because you have to buyJuly 11, 2021 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #1990526
That is only true some of the time. Did you ever order a personiled item from a manufactorer? They charge more for small orders because they are customizing it for you and dividing the costs over a few items. If you buy more, the price dropsJuly 12, 2021 5:32 am at 5:32 am #1990622yuda the maccabiParticipant
which is also supply and demand
since you have a specialized demand the suppliers can charge you moreJuly 12, 2021 9:47 am at 9:47 am #1990646
Supply and demand is a seperate issue. These items are priced higher because of production costs, often too high and end up in major surplus.
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