Covid takeaways

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  • #2043038
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Many people have altered their attitudes ‘due to Covid’. There are/were a lot of lessons, or revelations, to be learned.

    For me, the most prominent point was how we had to drop the normalcy factor out of all decisions, and decide simply based on logic.

    Another important attitude change, which I wish was shared by more people, was appreciation for Yeshiva administration. We got to see real dedication to Chinuch. They worked really hard, and were often very pressured.

    We got to see how politics affects even medical decision making. How political points are more important than lives.

    We got to see the downside of the inner-city, what-do-they-know attitude that is prevalent in certain places.

    #2043135
    chymee
    Participant

    Before Covid at the airport all evil was done in the name of security reasons, it’s now changed to SUE TO COVID

    #2043136
    ujm
    Participant

    HaLeiVi, can you expound on how Yeshiva administrations during Covid demonstrated more than their usual selfless dedication to Chinuch under pressure?

    #2043150
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    UJM, they worked hard to set things up on the fly, as things were needed. They worked out the approach (phone system, timing, level of responsibly, locations, when to come back, for how much of the day, testing limits), and made things as seamless as possible.

    We always depend on doing things as they were, with only slight changes. Here, they were faced with tremendous decisions, with large-scale ramifications, daily.

    We were very lucky to have good relationships with the local police. That is obviously due to the community liaisons, to which we hardly pay enough attention to, as well.

    The food boxes was done in a very thoughtful and orderly manner, at least in my school.

    #2043168
    shlucha22
    Participant

    Something that i think a lot of people took is that everything can change in an instant and even though we may think we are in control of a situation, Hashem can change everything!!
    And people definitely need to appreciate the Yeshivas and Schools big time!

    #2044111
    draintheswamp
    Participant

    main take away from covid is do not trust the government. the government is not the answer. especially the Zionist regime.

    #2046591
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    Some Yeshiva systems did amazing, some… not so much. One place I’m familiar with set up an awful phone conferencing system after a few weeks with zero guidance or help to Rebbeim and teachers on the best way to use it then said “good enough” and that’s what they used for the months of lockdown (and the following year when lots of kids and teachers were out for days or even weeks). The administration cared more about avoiding the Internet by all means necessary than they did about having a functional distance chinuch system in place. Like teachers were emailing videos out, but the hanhallah shut them down. To their credit, they did listen to parent complaints (which there were a LOT of) and did change things a little here and a little there to make things more tolerable.

    #2046650

    YS> set up an awful phone conferencing system after a few weeks

    I don’t think we should fault anyone for doing something wrong: this was an unprecedented situation. As long as they honestly tried, and then changed something based on feedback. As it says – if you see a Talmid Chacham sinning at night, do not reprimand him in the morning, as he surely did teshuva. That is, a person can be a T’Ch without being perfect, but being able to do teshuva is a requirement.

    #2046673

    One takeaway is appreciation of halakhic public policies that regulate both religious and social life.

    Seeing disintegration of norms and sanity and lack of unity when we are confronted with novel problems makes you think – how would Jews behave if they were not repeatedly told to daven every day, wear proper clothes, and not steal from each other. It is rare to see Jews fighting for a seat in shul or who gets an aliya because we have rules about all these trivial matters. You can come to most any shul in the world, and you feel comfortable knowing what the rules are. Many “lo plug” takanot make one wonder – would people really confuse chicken with meat, but seeing people confusing scarfs with masks convinced me.

    #2046754
    ujm
    Participant

    Yseribus: You’re blinded to the serious dangers of opening up the Pandora’s Box known as the Internet.

    #2046846

    ujm> opening up the Pandora’s Box known as the Internet.

    I know we obviously can’t “see” here people who are not on Internet, but I have an impression that a large part of the community gets the negative side of internet already. Many/most adults have social media. mostly on their phone, judging by grammar. Many teens also. Those who do not have access – they seem to be getting “news” from those who do – either directly or through several steps. So, this virus is already inside.

    At the same time, most seem not to have general internet literacy – how to search for information, what is a reliable source. As a result, they follow inane and insane sources and are not able to process information. I don’t know at what age, but at some age, there should be a class about using internet responsibly.

    #2047139
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    You can get email services through a kosher provider without full internet access that allow people to send you audio and video. So there’s no excuse for a Yeshiva to shut down teachers sending videos specifically “because internet” while still relying on email for everything else.

    #2047157

    You can also mail people USB drives with videos and require no internet at all.

    #2047163
    ujm
    Participant

    Videos can have highly inappropriate content. Once you permit “kosher” videos, you lose a large degree of controlling/stopping emails from containing non-kosher videos.

    #2047296
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Yserbius123, you have to differentiate between a difference of opinion and obvious negligence. It’s obvious that your priorities don’t align with that of said Yeshiva. So, you disagree.

    #2047299

    While concerns about internet are important, we might have acquired enough computer literacy in some pockets in the community, so that a much larger group can now benefit from it. There are now Rabbis with kosher phones that run regular zoom classes, enjoying ability to travel more without breaking the class schedule and have former students who moved away joining the class. At least adults can now start using internet responsibly and carefully introduce it to kids where appropriate.
    First advise is to use desktops in common areas with screens towards people rather than laptops and phones.

    #2047435
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    I’m confused. The Older Roshei Yeshiva encouraged Zoom for yeshivos in lockdown.

    #2047457
    ujm
    Participant

    N0m: Yes, you’re confused. It was the younger more modern Yeshivos that permitted zoom.

    #2047466
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Reb Elya Brudny insisted on using Zoom for the mesivtos that are under his tutelage.

    #2047484
    ujm
    Participant

    N0m: The Mirrer Yeshiva in Flatbush, where Rav Brudny is Rosh Yeshiva, elementary and mesivta decidedly did NOT use Zoom.

    #2047497
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Ujm,

    I have no idea about the Mir. I can’t even say if they have any boys left.

    #2047513
    ujm
    Participant

    N0m: I *do* have an excellent idea of what’s going on. Which is why I shared the accurate information with you in my previous comment, to respond to your erroneous point prior.

    #2047526
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Ujm,

    I was not referring to the Mir. No-one I know goes there.

    #2047543
    ujm
    Participant

    N0m: You used Rav Brudny as your proof. Your proof was absolutely false.

    #2047548
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Ask him. The mesivtos in Lakewood claimed that he insisted.

    #2047617
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    Zoom use during lockdown varied wildly. Some Rosh Yeshivos embraced it. Some discouraged it. Some switched “sides” in the middle. Many places worked really hard to make sure there was some form of video conferencing available to talmidim/talmidos that didn’t require a household internet connection.

    #2047996
    yehudis21
    Participant

    My biggest takeaway from Covid is seeing how humans, regardless of race, religion, or demographic, can be truly heroic in their dedication to helping others. And on the flip side, how humans, regardless of race, religion, or demographic, can be egotistical, selfish, brainwashed idiots who care only about their own opinions and don’t give a darn if other people die because of their actions.

    Basically, this time period shows how we are all, in fact, just humans, and no one is intrinsically better than anyone else. You just need to be willing to put in the effort.

    #2048008
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    wait… lemme guess. You see yourself as a hero and not egotistical and selfish caring only about your own opinion? Or was there a third option there that I missed?

    #2048118

    yehudis > can be truly heroic .. And on the flip side …no one is intrinsically better than anyone else

    I agree and disagree. Truly, a moment of challenge reveals a lot. Gemora defines these moments as “kiso, koso, vekaaso”. And in this case, we had all of this – a lot of financial issues clouding decisions; anger at others for whatever reason, and, I suspect (supported by purchase stats 🙂 – some drinking also.

    I disagree with “kulanu shavim”. People whom I respected and looked up to mostly continued doing good things, often more than usual; and those whom I avoided before, it is now easier to keep 4 amot/6 ft away. What was interesting, the Syag’s “third option”, beinoni, I guess, which was the majority of people I know. Many of those revealed to belong to one of the 2 groups Either I did not notcie before, or their character revealed in crisis.

    #2048213
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I didn’t give a third option, as you know, and as I already asked you to stop quoting me I have to assume you are doing it deliberately. Please stop quoting or referencing things I said as you can’t seem to get them straight.

    #2048328
    yehudis21
    Participant

    AAQ, you are 100% agreeing with me. You are just saying that people who you have seen prior to Covid choose to be good are more prone to continue doing good, and vice versa. But no one is INTRINSICALLY better than anyone else to start with.

    Syag, why are you assuming that I think everyone must either be one or the other? I am simply pointing out that both parties exist. And no, I was most definitely NOT a hero during Covid, though I know many people who were, and continue to be so.

    #2048358
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Yehudis – if that’s true then I apologize. I wonder, then why you chose that wording. People advocated for masks and were heros, or they were selfish and killed people? I met more “health afvocates” in that second category than among the non advocates. In all honesty, I only have met 2 people who are anti mask (versus anti mandate) and one I of them I only met here. I think that category was invented by people like Yserbius and AAQ to develop and foster division for reasons I will never understand. While they call me a murderer, I proudly displayed a “heros live here” sign planted on my lawn by people who define it differently.

    #2048438
    yehudis21
    Participant

    Syag, I honestly have no clue what you are trying to say.

    #2048465

    Syag, are you saying that there were no people who refused to wear masks? We had lovely discussions here with people explaining how bad masks are. Same in person, here and, as reported by reliable witnesses in other towns. Maybe I am not understanding your definition.

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