November 10, 2013 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #611236
Have you ever changed a strongly held belief because of a thread on the cr? e.g. became modern orthodox, started wearing black hat when you were against it before, became a feminist or stopped being one etc.November 10, 2013 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #986604
Nothing that drastic, but certainly the CR is a place for me to encounter differing beliefs and opinions, and some of those things have challenged me to think in a new way. It’s one of the reasons I enjoy reading the discussions here.November 10, 2013 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #986605
I don’t think so… How about you?November 10, 2013 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #986606
I became a feminist.November 10, 2013 6:19 pm at 6:19 pm #986607
Yes, I became satmar.November 10, 2013 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #986608
Not those types of opinions but I have changed other opinions regarding people. For instance, I always thought that the people who say nasty things or defend nasty people (molesters included) are evil and doing it knowing they are wrong, I have learned through the CR that they really have no clue and I can judge them more favorably.November 10, 2013 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #986609
Interesting thread.November 10, 2013 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #986610
No. I’d be surprised to hear differently from anyone.November 10, 2013 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #986612
I became Satmar.November 10, 2013 11:49 pm at 11:49 pm #986613
moi – I haven’t posted all that much here but the resent OTD thread has made me more open in my views of parenting.
I just think its interesting that people (myself including) post opinions as if someone is going to read it and care what you think and maybe change the way they think when in reality most other people are just doing the same thing.November 11, 2013 12:04 am at 12:04 am #986614
I’d be surprised to hear differently from anyone.
I guess I stand corrected.
Syag, nobody defends molestation.November 11, 2013 12:45 am at 12:45 am #986615
DY – I said molesters
And PLEASE don’t try saying nobody defends molesters.November 11, 2013 2:20 am at 2:20 am #986619
Not knowing that they’re molesters.
Do you have a problem with the presumption of innocence until proven guilty?
Or, to rephrase, are you referring to situations in which, according to hilchos loshon hora, one is allowed to be mekabel?November 11, 2013 5:34 am at 5:34 am #986620
Yes I became addicted…to here 😉November 11, 2013 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #986621
DY – Not sure why you’ve chosen this to to jump on but if I am saying that I thought the defenders of molesters were evil, it stands to reason that I am referring to situations in which one is allowed to be mekabel LH. And situations where it is NECESSARY to act for reasons of pikuach nefesh.
Interesting presentation of words, though. I can’t fathom your motive, but it is not lost on me.November 11, 2013 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #986622
i became a lot more savvy, not taking everything i read at face value. and realised how modern i am.November 11, 2013 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #986623
Syag, maybe I missed it, but I haven’t seen anyone here opine that known cases of molestation shouldn’t be dealt with.
The only thing I’ve seen is debate over whether we should assume the guilt of sim ees one we see accused in news reports.November 11, 2013 1:46 pm at 1:46 pm #986624
DY – That is the second time now that you have changed my words and then denied it being said. Either comment on my post, or don’t, but please don’t put words in my mouth. And either way, why do you care so much about what opinions I’ve changed and how accurate or reality based they are?November 11, 2013 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #986625
No, not really. My opinions are my own and I am pretty strong in my beliefs.November 11, 2013 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm #986626
Just a bit, but in good ways. Not significantly though. But I wasn’t here for too long…maybe it will take some more time.November 11, 2013 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #986627
Because in dealing with a terrible problem, sometimes another awful problem is created, and the innocent smeared. I know someone going through this right now, l”a
Your post isactually puzzling. If you’re talking about molesters about whom we are supposed to believe their guilt, why are their defenders not indeed nasty?
If not, why are the skeptics clueless?November 11, 2013 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #986628
I like hearing from the reasonable posters (such as DY) and often they will have a point that I didn’t think of before.November 11, 2013 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #986629
why are their defenders not indeed nasty?
That was what I used to think. Then I found out that some people just don’t want to know things. They are unwilling to accept certain facts or realities and when they lash out or defend, it is from a certain level of ignorance, not nastiness. This goes for so many other discussions as well, hashkofik, theological, and philosophical. Not everyone who says nasty things knows that their words are nasty. Some really believe they are speaking truth. And in person, there is often too much emotion surrounding these discussions for it to be seen so clearly.November 11, 2013 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #986630
Syag, I hear what you’re saying, but I don’t recall any examples of clear, proven-al-pi-halacha, offenders being discussed here and defended. Again, maybe I just missed it.
Gavra, thank you.November 11, 2013 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #986631
You sound surprised. Are you sure you are that familiar with every discussion? Not all discussions involve names, and I would assume there are discussions that you don’t take part in. I find your surprise somewhat puzzling myself.
And I’m still wondering why you are so focused on this.November 11, 2013 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #986632
And I’m wondering why you’re wondering why I’m focused on this, beyond what I’ve stated.November 11, 2013 4:58 pm at 4:58 pm #986633
And I wish your friend a yeshua. If he is innocent, Hashem will reward him heavily for his tremendous yisurim.November 11, 2013 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm #986634
You’re right, it might be your sensitivity toward your friend’s situation. I just found (find) it odd for someone to need so much clarification from someone who states they found a Limud zchus for nasty posters. Not much to ponder.
As it often is, I find you to be ready and willing to answer questions and explain yourself and I respect that.November 11, 2013 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #986635
Amen and thank you.November 11, 2013 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #986636
so what benefit is there to posting an opinion if no one is going to change their minds about the topic? Does it just make us feel good to think we are being heard when really we arent?November 11, 2013 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #986637
I like hearing other’s views on various things, so I post mine in case there is someone interested in hearing my ideas. I couldn’t care less if no one takes me seriously, that’s not why I post. I’m not here to change the world, and I don’t think anyone else is either.November 12, 2013 4:45 am at 4:45 am #986639
A1000, some people have changed their opinions in some matters, but haven’t changed their overall hashkofa.November 12, 2013 12:28 pm at 12:28 pm #986640
SG – I’m here to change the world. It’s my mission statement.Of course, right now I’m working on myself to be good enough to create such a change.
I have changed my opinion. Sometimes, I automatically assumed things, and then people would post some sources about what different Rabbis/Sources say. It’s easy for me to be accepting of people, but to change my philosophy is another. So the CR has challenged that, even though I don’t usually post in those topics.
I’ll use the OTD thread as an example. I’m of the belief to be accepting of your children even if they choose another path. Some posters however, helped remind me that it’s our job to stick to Halacha.November 12, 2013 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #986641
There is a big difference between “being heard” and changing someone’s opinion.November 12, 2013 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #986642
@sanityisoverrated – You are? I’ll sit back and watch this happen. Not that I’m doubting the world wouldn’t be a better place with your outlook, but I’d like to see you take on that challenge.November 12, 2013 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #986643
B”H I’ll let the CR know when this starts happen. Until then, settle down for the long wait. Working on myself isn’t easy. Turns out, I got to learn to be social. Warning: Here comes my plastic smile to hide my sarcasm.November 12, 2013 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #986644
Erm, I think I wrote that wrong. It looks like I’m saying Baruch Hashem. While Hashem is my blessing, here I’m asking for His help with my memory. “B”Ezras Hashem ….”November 12, 2013 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #986645
Oh no….a long wait?? So do I get some popcorn to go with that?
“Turns out, I got to learn to be social.” No way!! I’ve never heard that one before. But thanks for the sarcasm warning. One thing to say about this topic though: If your communication skills in real life match the ones I see here, I must say you seem to have an easy time expressing yourself and you shouldn’t have an issue adapting to society.November 12, 2013 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #986646
If anything, reading the posts and comments here has made me hold more firmly to the opinions I had to start out with. My hope and intent is to change the opinions of the others in the CR.November 12, 2013 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #986647
Sadly, my communication skills don’t. That’s why I like the internet. It translates my language.
Ask the CR mods for popcorn. It should come free for every new member.November 12, 2013 8:35 pm at 8:35 pm #986648
Doesn’t it get confusing to be one way on the internet and a completely different way in real life? Don’t you ever get mixed up, like talk to someone in real life the way you speak online? How many sides do you have to yourself anyways?! People complex like you confuse me. I’ll take the popcorn with some wine at this point…November 12, 2013 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #986649
Sometime. I think I confuse everyone in my life including me. I’m half convinced I got several dozen people in my head. The other half disagrees.
Here, why don’t you finish off that bottle?November 12, 2013 9:04 pm at 9:04 pm #986650
Why don’t you finish it off for me. Maybe it will shut up half the voices and you’ll start getting places…November 12, 2013 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #986651
Sg- it’s not confusing because it’s who the person really is. Some people just can’t be any different in person and they are very uninhibited in writing. Nothing to remember because it isn’t by choice. Some I know wish they could bring their online persona to the real world.November 12, 2013 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #986652
Syag Lchochma – the way you put it sounds so sad, it must be depressing to be limited to expressing yourself just through written word on the internet…November 12, 2013 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #986653
In a way it is very sad, and in some ways it is so wonderful that they at least have the written word. I work with many individuals with asperger type issues that make it hard for them to speak with fluidity and prosidy. Their awkward tone and movements make it hard for people to relate to the content. I also have one friend who is so unconfident that he just cannot speak to people unless they are very close friends. Anonymous blogs, however, are easy for him.November 12, 2013 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #986654
I hear that side too, interesting.November 12, 2013 11:44 pm at 11:44 pm #986655
I think (all sarcasm and humor aside) that I have an easier time online, because there are less formalities that have to be dealt with. I don’t have to figure out when it’s appropriate to talk, when I should be quiet, when I should speak up. All the rigid unspoken rules make for very uncomfortable conversations that leave me feeling plastic and empty. Somehow, what’s in my head doesn’t really match up with what I say. By the time it does, the conversation has moved on to something else. Online however, I don’t face this. My fingers just hit the keyboard, and I type what I’m thinking. Then comes the best part. I can check everything I write before I send it, to make sure it’s ok.November 13, 2013 3:28 am at 3:28 am #986656
I get a pretty good opinion of a lot of people’s character here.November 13, 2013 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #986657
Sanity – Well, I’m glad you post here. I (all sarcasm and humor aside)personally love your posts 🙂
LF – Impossible.
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