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Have you ever changed a strongly held belief because of a thread on the cr? e.g. became modern orthodox, started wearing black hat when you were against it before, became a feminist or stopped being one etc.
Nothing that drastic, but certainly the CR is a place for me to encounter differing beliefs and opinions, and some of those things have challenged me to think in a new way. It’s one of the reasons I enjoy reading the discussions here.
I don’t think so… How about you?
I became a feminist.
Yes, I became satmar.
Not those types of opinions but I have changed other opinions regarding people. For instance, I always thought that the people who say nasty things or defend nasty people (molesters included) are evil and doing it knowing they are wrong, I have learned through the CR that they really have no clue and I can judge them more favorably.
Interesting thread.
No. I’d be surprised to hear differently from anyone.
I became Satmar.
I’d be surprised to hear differently from anyone.
I guess I stand corrected.
Syag, nobody defends molestation.
DY – I said molesters
And PLEASE don’t try saying nobody defends molesters.
Not knowing that they’re molesters.
Do you have a problem with the presumption of innocence until proven guilty?
Or, to rephrase, are you referring to situations in which, according to hilchos loshon hora, one is allowed to be mekabel?
Yes I became addicted…to here 😉
DY – Not sure why you’ve chosen this to to jump on but if I am saying that I thought the defenders of molesters were evil, it stands to reason that I am referring to situations in which one is allowed to be mekabel LH. And situations where it is NECESSARY to act for reasons of pikuach nefesh.
Interesting presentation of words, though. I can’t fathom your motive, but it is not lost on me.
i became a lot more savvy, not taking everything i read at face value. and realised how modern i am.
Syag, maybe I missed it, but I haven’t seen anyone here opine that known cases of molestation shouldn’t be dealt with.
The only thing I’ve seen is debate over whether we should assume the guilt of sim ees one we see accused in news reports.
DY – That is the second time now that you have changed my words and then denied it being said. Either comment on my post, or don’t, but please don’t put words in my mouth. And either way, why do you care so much about what opinions I’ve changed and how accurate or reality based they are?
No, not really. My opinions are my own and I am pretty strong in my beliefs.
Just a bit, but in good ways. Not significantly though. But I wasn’t here for too long…maybe it will take some more time.
Because in dealing with a terrible problem, sometimes another awful problem is created, and the innocent smeared. I know someone going through this right now, l”a
Your post isactually puzzling. If you’re talking about molesters about whom we are supposed to believe their guilt, why are their defenders not indeed nasty?
If not, why are the skeptics clueless?
I like hearing from the reasonable posters (such as DY) and often they will have a point that I didn’t think of before.
why are their defenders not indeed nasty?
That was what I used to think. Then I found out that some people just don’t want to know things. They are unwilling to accept certain facts or realities and when they lash out or defend, it is from a certain level of ignorance, not nastiness. This goes for so many other discussions as well, hashkofik, theological, and philosophical. Not everyone who says nasty things knows that their words are nasty. Some really believe they are speaking truth. And in person, there is often too much emotion surrounding these discussions for it to be seen so clearly.
Syag, I hear what you’re saying, but I don’t recall any examples of clear, proven-al-pi-halacha, offenders being discussed here and defended. Again, maybe I just missed it.
Gavra, thank you.
You sound surprised. Are you sure you are that familiar with every discussion? Not all discussions involve names, and I would assume there are discussions that you don’t take part in. I find your surprise somewhat puzzling myself.
And I’m still wondering why you are so focused on this.
And I’m wondering why you’re wondering why I’m focused on this, beyond what I’ve stated.
And I wish your friend a yeshua. If he is innocent, Hashem will reward him heavily for his tremendous yisurim.
You’re right, it might be your sensitivity toward your friend’s situation. I just found (find) it odd for someone to need so much clarification from someone who states they found a Limud zchus for nasty posters. Not much to ponder.
As it often is, I find you to be ready and willing to answer questions and explain yourself and I respect that.
Amen and thank you.
I like hearing other’s views on various things, so I post mine in case there is someone interested in hearing my ideas. I couldn’t care less if no one takes me seriously, that’s not why I post. I’m not here to change the world, and I don’t think anyone else is either.
A1000, some people have changed their opinions in some matters, but haven’t changed their overall hashkofa.
SG – I’m here to change the world. It’s my mission statement.Of course, right now I’m working on myself to be good enough to create such a change.
I have changed my opinion. Sometimes, I automatically assumed things, and then people would post some sources about what different Rabbis/Sources say. It’s easy for me to be accepting of people, but to change my philosophy is another. So the CR has challenged that, even though I don’t usually post in those topics.
I’ll use the OTD thread as an example. I’m of the belief to be accepting of your children even if they choose another path. Some posters however, helped remind me that it’s our job to stick to Halacha.
There is a big difference between “being heard” and changing someone’s opinion.
@SanityIsOverrated – You are? I’ll sit back and watch this happen. Not that I’m doubting the world wouldn’t be a better place with your outlook, but I’d like to see you take on that challenge.
B”H I’ll let the CR know when this starts happen. Until then, settle down for the long wait. Working on myself isn’t easy. Turns out, I got to learn to be social. Warning: Here comes my plastic smile to hide my sarcasm.
Erm, I think I wrote that wrong. It looks like I’m saying Baruch Hashem. While Hashem is my blessing, here I’m asking for His help with my memory. “B”Ezras Hashem ….”
Oh no….a long wait?? So do I get some popcorn to go with that?
“Turns out, I got to learn to be social.” No way!! I’ve never heard that one before. But thanks for the sarcasm warning. One thing to say about this topic though: If your communication skills in real life match the ones I see here, I must say you seem to have an easy time expressing yourself and you shouldn’t have an issue adapting to society.
If anything, reading the posts and comments here has made me hold more firmly to the opinions I had to start out with. My hope and intent is to change the opinions of the others in the CR.
Sadly, my communication skills don’t. That’s why I like the internet. It translates my language.
Ask the CR mods for popcorn. It should come free for every new member.
Doesn’t it get confusing to be one way on the internet and a completely different way in real life? Don’t you ever get mixed up, like talk to someone in real life the way you speak online? How many sides do you have to yourself anyways?! People complex like you confuse me. I’ll take the popcorn with some wine at this point…
Sometime. I think I confuse everyone in my life including me. I’m half convinced I got several dozen people in my head. The other half disagrees.
Here, why don’t you finish off that bottle?
Why don’t you finish it off for me. Maybe it will shut up half the voices and you’ll start getting places…
Sg- it’s not confusing because it’s who the person really is. Some people just can’t be any different in person and they are very uninhibited in writing. Nothing to remember because it isn’t by choice. Some I know wish they could bring their online persona to the real world.
Syag Lchochma – the way you put it sounds so sad, it must be depressing to be limited to expressing yourself just through written word on the internet…
In a way it is very sad, and in some ways it is so wonderful that they at least have the written word. I work with many individuals with asperger type issues that make it hard for them to speak with fluidity and prosidy. Their awkward tone and movements make it hard for people to relate to the content. I also have one friend who is so unconfident that he just cannot speak to people unless they are very close friends. Anonymous blogs, however, are easy for him.
I hear that side too, interesting.
I think (all sarcasm and humor aside) that I have an easier time online, because there are less formalities that have to be dealt with. I don’t have to figure out when it’s appropriate to talk, when I should be quiet, when I should speak up. All the rigid unspoken rules make for very uncomfortable conversations that leave me feeling plastic and empty. Somehow, what’s in my head doesn’t really match up with what I say. By the time it does, the conversation has moved on to something else. Online however, I don’t face this. My fingers just hit the keyboard, and I type what I’m thinking. Then comes the best part. I can check everything I write before I send it, to make sure it’s ok.
I get a pretty good opinion of a lot of people’s character here.
Sanity – Well, I’m glad you post here. I (all sarcasm and humor aside)personally love your posts 🙂
LF – Impossible.
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