November 20, 2011 1:47 am at 1:47 am #600662mik5Participant
Are we required to believe that Hashem created the earth (and other planets?) in six 24-hour periods, and that the universe is literally 5772 years old? Or do you believe in evolution?November 20, 2011 1:56 am at 1:56 am #828164hockaroundtheclockMember
Don’t look for hashkafa in the CR, listen to Rabbi Avigdor Miller on the subject.November 20, 2011 2:14 am at 2:14 am #828165real-briskerMember
MODS – IS THERE ANY REASON WHY YOUR ALLOWING KIFERAH IN THE CR?
You didn’t need to bold, the caps got my attention. I don’t see any kefira yet. OP asked whether we are required to believe the world was created in 6 literal days. If you know the answer, then by all means go ahead and spit it out.November 20, 2011 2:22 am at 2:22 am #828166
MIB, it is highly inappropriate that you are mocking a famous Gadol, especially in the name of YW. Most of us came to this site to avoid just that. We really didn’t expect a moderator to post something that is against the rules.
You are correct. I banned myself.November 20, 2011 2:44 am at 2:44 am #828167oomisParticipant
There are machlokos amongst our Chachomim as to what the time frame really is/was. Some believe it was actually that each Day was a 24 hour cycle, and other assert that because there was no sun or planetary creation in the Heavens until Day 4, the time frame could have millions of years initially. What difference does it really make? We believe Hashem created EVERYTHING, “SHe-Haya, Hoveh, V’Yihiyeh.” So does it really make such a colossal difference if our understanding of the concept of time at the beginning of Creation is the same as it is in our time? Many things have changed over the millennia. Is it such a stretch to believe that time was altered as well?November 20, 2011 2:49 am at 2:49 am #828168skiaddictMember
Rabbi Avigdor Miller is absolutely terrific, i read tons of his books and he really makes issues such as evolution very clear – read them and you will not have any more questions – i guarantee! I used to be very skeptical and had tons of questions, and reading his books made everything so clear and the torah hashkofo made so much sense, whilst the theories and evolution ideas were so clearly rubbish! He brings scientific proofs and quotes famous theorists to clearly show how evolution is made up and doesnt make sense.November 20, 2011 2:58 am at 2:58 am #828169cantoresqMember
The problem is that since R. Miller died, evolution has moved one. Many of the problmes with evolutionary theory he cited have been resolved.November 20, 2011 4:01 am at 4:01 am #828170
Thanks. You’re an inspiration for taking Tochacha well. I wonder what your current, invisible, subtitle is.November 20, 2011 4:25 am at 4:25 am #828171akupermaParticipant
We should avoid discussing the matter with goyim, whose terms we are using since any Jewish discussion of the matter involves matters of kabbalah which we can’t discuss with goyim, and any attempt to discuss the subject without reference to kabbalah distorts the Torah perspective.
Remember that a “fundamentalist” by definition believes that what they call the “Bible” must be understood without reference to any external source, meaning without reference to our oral traditions – which precludes a meaningful discussion with them.November 20, 2011 5:04 am at 5:04 am #828172popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Are we required to believe that Hashem created the earth (and other planets?) in six 24-hour periods, and that the universe is literally 5772 years old?
I am not aware that we are required to believe that. We are required to believe that G-d created the world ex-nihilo, but that is ok, since there is no other logical choice anyway.
Or do you believe in evolution?
I’m not sure why you picked that as the “other choice.” I could imagine 1000 other options besides those two. For example, that Hashem created the world in 6 24 hour periods and it was 5773 years ago.November 20, 2011 6:19 am at 6:19 am #828173
We keep Shabbos to testify that Hashem craeted the world in six days. The Torah is not a riddle. Ki Karov Eilecha Hadavar Me’od. Midrasshim and Aggada are many times alegorical, but not the Torah, unless it is blatant.November 20, 2011 6:51 am at 6:51 am #828174old manParticipant
The OP asks:
“Are we required to believe that Hashem created the earth (and other planets?) in six 24-hour periods, and that the universe is literally 5772 years old? “
The answer is : No, you are not required to believe that.November 20, 2011 7:35 am at 7:35 am #828175Sam2Participant
HaLeiVi: While we assume that’s true, there are significant Rishonim who say not like that so it’s hard to say that we are obligated to assume that.November 20, 2011 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #828176lesschumrasParticipant
I’m always amazed how many people are Reform when it comes to the first perek since they make believe Torah she’beal peh doesn’t exist and insist on a literal translation.November 20, 2011 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #828177zahavasdadParticipant
Where in Hashkafa does it say that the dinosaurs died before the flood?November 20, 2011 2:34 pm at 2:34 pm #828178
Sam2, please tell me what you are talking about. We actually base our calendar on the 24hr six schedule.
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