August 3, 2008 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #587960noitallmrParticipant
Is one allowed to wear crocs on Tisha Ba’av??? Even though they aren’t made of leather they are built to be comfortable which surely defeats the whole purpose??? Or maybe it’s a Din in the leather???August 4, 2008 5:01 am at 5:01 am #789767namelessMember
The Din is leather. I have been wearing canvas shoes all through the years, before cocs were invented. Let me tell you, they are sometimes MUCh more comfortable than leather shoes. I remember one year I was wearing plastic shoes which looked EXACTLY like leather (this was on YK). People were wondering , and I asked a Rav who said there is no inyen of Maras Ayin in this case, I can wear whateve as long as its not leather.August 4, 2008 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm #789768tzippiMember
As with the alarm clock, CYLOR but let me ask you: when you’ve looked for non-leather shoes for Yom Kippur, wasn’t comfort a factor? Does “inui” mean we have to find the most uncomfortable shoes?August 4, 2008 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #789769tzippiMember
Meant to add, inyan’s with the leather.August 4, 2008 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #789770feivelParticipant
it’s a Din in the leatherAugust 4, 2008 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #789771noitallmrParticipant
Even if the Din is leather, the only reason why leather is ossur is become it’s a comfortable material especially in the olden days where it was either leather or wood.August 4, 2008 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #789772cherrybimParticipant
When chazal made a gezeira for leather, or for that matter most other gezeiros, that’s it. We don’t second guess chazal with other chumros. For example, ashkanazi chazal made a gezeira on kitnios on Pesach. Potatoes did not come to Europe until the new world was discovered in the 1400’s. As a result, mustard flour was banned since its similar to flour in consistency but not potato starch since chazal never saw potatoes. And we cannot be more machmir on what chazal was originally gozer.August 4, 2008 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #789773ales mit cavunehParticipant
noitalmr a din is a din which means theres only chalos issur on leather. regardless of how comfortable other meterials are. But hey im sure god would appreciate it if you furthered you suffering and mourning over the bais hamikdash, may it be rebuilt speedily!August 4, 2008 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #789774cantoresqMember
BTW this question was not always so obvious. It’s brought diwn in the Sefer Minhagim that the Maharil was mechadeish davar when he allowed people to wear a new garment called “zocken” on their feet on Yom Kippur rather than go completely barefoot. Seems once upon a time, the idea was to be uncomfortable and not merely avoid leather.August 8, 2008 4:47 pm at 4:47 pm #789775Mayan_DvashParticipant
We see many times in Shas (anyone here holding with the daf?) where an amoirah proposes a chumrah and the other chachamim say that if you do such-and-such you’ll be motzi laaz on the previous generation who were not as machmir.
Additionally, just as we say Lo Plug regarding a gezairah, where the stated reason doen’t apply anymore, but we still follow the gezairah, that principle should apply here as well.July 24, 2011 8:52 am at 8:52 am #789776YW Moderator-42Moderator
BPT, are you Beautifully Painted Toes visible through the holes in your crocs?July 24, 2011 9:23 am at 9:23 am #789777g73Member
I saw this on revach.net: Rav Elyashiv said that since Crocs are worn all year round, you are not permitted to wear them on Tisha B’Av. Rav Moshe Shternbuch said that while technically you may wear them on Tisha B’Av, it is better not to. Similarly Rav Nissim Karelitz and Rav Meir Brandsdorfer held that it is not assur but Yirei Shamayim should not wear them.July 24, 2011 12:28 pm at 12:28 pm #789778golden momMember
Btw I did see in the last few years published (maybe in the hamodia?) That rabbanim came out saying that if u wear crocs everyday u shouldn’t wear on yom kippur and tisha ba avJuly 24, 2011 1:04 pm at 1:04 pm #789779RABBAIMParticipant
Many Poskim hold that one must be able to feel the ground beneath him and therefore one cannot wear anything which has thick soles or is padded. Rav Yoshe Ber Soloveitchik ztl was very scrupulous about this for Yom Kippur, Tisha B’Av and avelilus of shiva. And yes, inuy does mean suffering of a certain type. Many won’t sit on padded chairs during shiva either …………… one adam gadol told me “my mother is worth one week of discomfort” The Bais Hamikdahs is for sure worth it!!July 24, 2011 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #789780get a lifeMember
I heard Rav Elyashiv said you cannot wear crocs on Tisha Bav or YK.July 24, 2011 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #789781mamashtakahMember
I’m glad I saw this – it reminded me I have no non-leather shoes for Tisha B’Av. I threw my old pair away after wearing them twice a year for 21 years – they wore thru. I gotta remember to get some new ones, quick!July 24, 2011 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #789782charliehallParticipant
I wear Converse Jack Purcell canvas shoes two days a year, on Tisha B’Av, and on Yom Kippur.
There are many minhagim for Tisha B’Av and they all should be respected.July 24, 2011 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #789783am yisrael chaiParticipant
“The Din is leather.”
Leather watchbands, belts, etc. are muttarJuly 24, 2011 2:46 pm at 2:46 pm #789784popa_bar_abbaParticipant
There are many minhagim for Tisha B’Av and they all should be respected.
This.July 24, 2011 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #789785
Crocs For Tisha B’Av? – Rav Elyashiv and Rav Shternbuch
On Tisha B’Av it is assur to wear leather shoes. Crocs are synthetic and do not contain any leather. However there is a Machlokes between Rashi and the Rambam if wooden shoes that are not wrapped in leather, are assur on Yom Kippur because since you cannot feel the ground they are like shoes even though they don’t have leather. The Shulchan Aruch (614:2) paskens like the Rambam who says that it is permissible while the Mishna Brura (5) says we should be Machmir like Rashi.
On one hand, Tisha B’Av is not as stringent as Yom Kippur, which is Min HaTorah, so maybe we need not be machmir. On the other hand, Crocs are worn by millions of people as shoes every day of the year. The Gilyon Halacha U’Maaseh asked the leading poskim their opinion.
Rav Elyashiv said that since Crocs are worn all year round, you are not permitted to wear them on Tisha B’Av. Rav Moshe Shternbuch said that while technically you may wear them on Tisha B’Av, it is better not to. Similarly Rav Nissim Karelitz and Rav Meir Brandsdorfer held that it is not assur but Yirei Shamayim should not wear them.July 24, 2011 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #789786PeacemakerMember
hello99: Isn’t there a difference in how crocs are used (in the sense of causal-wear vs. daily-wear) between Eretz Yisroel and America that would affect the applicability of the psak?July 24, 2011 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #789787
Well, thanks to a practitioner of a certain Middle Eastern creed that makes it clear that agreements with infidels are not to be upheld, I will not have Crocs for 9 Av this year unless I’m stupid enough to risk athlete’s foot by wearing the pair I left at the mikve. I don’t wear them all year round and the colors I get (whatever’s on sale for the lowest price) are davka such that I only wear them outside on 9 Av or YK, not that I would wear them outside anyway.
No real loss, even if Ebay accepts the gonif’s lies I won’t miss what I paid for them and I have much more humble non-leather slippers that are more in line with 9 Av. Once I looked, after it was already too late, at his history of negatives and the complaints that went with them, I knew I would never see my Crocs and I started a claim on Ebay which is on hold until Friday. The gonif probably sent an empty package from his mail drop in Utah to me. It cleared Ukrainian customs in record time and was then probably thrown in the garbage so I would not blame the local PO for the loss. (This helps me because they will never deliver such a thing to me so he will never have any proof of delivery). I guess it is best that I don’t have them.July 24, 2011 10:39 pm at 10:39 pm #789789Another nameParticipant
I don’t understand, the person should buy special tisha b’av/ yom kippur shoes, and make sure that they are not comfortable to boot? Why be machmir than halacha? Bh we live in a modern day and age where harmless comfort is more accesible. I don’t think it’s a mitzvah to deprive ourselves.July 24, 2011 10:39 pm at 10:39 pm #789790yolkMember
know this may seem out of context but does anyone know where i can find a cheap pair of real crocs online? i’m not interested in spending 30 dollars but will settle on $20 the mostJuly 24, 2011 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #789791yehudayonaParticipant
If it’s preferable not to wear Crocs because they’re too comfortable, is it also preferable to forgo air conditioning?July 24, 2011 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #789792
Yolk – Ebay but check the seller’s history carefully. I got two really good deals on prior pairs; this time I did not look and got taken.July 25, 2011 6:29 am at 6:29 am #789793
peacemaker: “However there is a Machlokes between Rashi and the Rambam if wooden shoes that are not wrapped in leather, are assur on Yom Kippur because since you cannot feel the ground they are like shoes”
Sounds like Rashi’s issue is with feeling the ground, not formal wearJuly 25, 2011 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #789794PeacemakerMember
hello99: You earlier wrote that Shulchan Aruch paskens like Rambam, not Rashi. Also, if you are going to be extra machmir and pasken like Rashi, then you would have to assur any non-leather footwear where you don’t feel the ground, including sneakers, etc. What *could* you then wear?July 25, 2011 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #789795bombmaniacParticipant
listen. if you arent satisfied with the level of discomfort you experience on tisha b’av, how about you sit on a chair made of thumb tacks?July 25, 2011 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #789796twistedParticipant
I wore crocks (knock offs) all day today, as every day, and being on sick leave, walked several kilometer all around town, and I have bruised metatarsals, so though I wasn’t paying attention, my feet felt the ground.July 25, 2011 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #789797
peacemaker: First of all, I didn’t write, I quoted from Revach.net.
Secondly, it wasn’t me who said to be machmir, it was Mishna Berura and many Poskim.
You could wear socks or very thin slippers.July 25, 2011 9:57 pm at 9:57 pm #789798CutieMember
is it true crocs contain leather?July 25, 2011 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #789799☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
I will not have Crocs for 9 Av this year unless I’m stupid enough to risk athlete’s foot by wearing the pair I left at the mikve.
Why don’t you spray them with an anti-fungal?July 25, 2011 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #789800DovidMMember
I have a pair of all-black Chucks that I wear only twice a year.
I have seen people wearing Crocs or the Crocs knock-offs (I can’t tell the difference) on Tisha b’Av. As long as they aren’t in primary colors, I never give them too much thought.July 26, 2011 4:57 am at 4:57 am #789802haifagirlParticipant
Isn’t there a difference in how crocs are used (in the sense of causal-wear vs. daily-wear) between Eretz Yisroel and America that would affect the applicability of the psak?
I don’t understand the question. I wear my Crocs every day, even to work, where we have a dress code. I also wear them around my apartment. Am I wearing them for casual- or daily-wear?
(I assume you mean “casual” and not “causal.”)July 26, 2011 6:58 am at 6:58 am #789803netazarParticipant
yolk- try amazonJuly 26, 2011 1:15 pm at 1:15 pm #789804oomisParticipant
The Torah assers leather; not synthetic leather, not crocs,not rubber, not cloth sneakers, just LEATHER. So just do not wear leather.July 26, 2011 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #789805
For those who hold by Rav Elyashiv shlit”a, he is part of Torah (he is for all of us but he is not my rav so I do not particularly hold by every psak of his but rather use them as a base or to know when I should ask my rav something).
My Crocs did come in – but they are “professional” Crocs and they NOT comfortable, at least now that they are new, and I will be wearing them on 9 Av and YK.
They also are not a color I would ever wear in public other than to go downstairs to the grocery in my building, nor do I wear Crocs during the year except if there is an awful downpour (and even then, never to shul) so Rav Elyashiv’s reasoning doesn’t apply for me.
Daas, I don’t think the anti-fungal or even Lysol/Oust penetrates far enough into the material for them not to be a risk for prolonged wear as opposed to for stepping in and out of at a heavily chlorinated mikveh.
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