D-day and hallel

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  • #612950

    So my shul did not say tacun today and I assume that it is because of D-day, so my question is what about hallel? with or without a bracha? (yeah lets start this again)

    #1018653

    Is your shul normally in the habit of reciting movie scripts during davening?

    #1018654

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Did D-day occur in E”Y?

    #1018655

    Utah
    Member

    Some shuls have the minhag not to say tachnun until the 14th of Sivan.

    Has nothing to do with D Day

    #1018656

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    There was alternate side today.

    #1018657

    Sam2
    Participant

    If you’re in the states, no Shuls say Tachanun because it’s Isru Chag.

    #1018658

    “Did D-day occur in E”Y? “

    no, but maybe the beginning of the downfall of the Nazis ym’sh is something to be celebrated by saying hallel. ?

    #1018659

    akuperma
    Participant

    How was it a miracle? The Allied forces had superior air power, superior numbers, more highly motivated soldiers, not to mention the ability to read virtually all secret communications sent to and from the German military (at least ones sent by radio). Now, if the Warsaw Ghetto uprising had managed to bring down Hitler and end the war – that would be a miracle.

    Of course, the Religious Zionists have somewhat lowered the “bar” for what is considered a miracle, since they attribute the Israeli victories over the Arabs to “miracles” . The secular Israelis, the Hareidim, i.e. the Satmar Rebbe, and most of the world attribute the Israeli victories to having better trained, better led and better armed soldiers.

    A miracle is something the happens that violates the laws of nature. The creation of the world was a miracle. The splitting of the sea is a miracle.

    #1018660

    charliehall
    Participant

    “Has nothing to do with D Day”

    The reason was addressed a few weeks ago in Daf Yomi. 🙂

    #1018661

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    To b, the gemara in a few places goes through criteria for saying hallel on a nes. One of them is a bes in e”y.

    #1018662

    The secular Israelis, the Hareidim, i.e. the Satmar Rebbe, and most of the world attribute the Israeli victories to having better trained, better led and better armed soldiers.

    1)There is only so much one can attribute to skill. To get some facts straight, Israel fought against:

    a.Egypt

    b.Syria

    c.Jordan

    d.Arab Expeditionary Forces

    e.Iraq

    f.Saudi Arabia

    g.Morocco

    h.Algeria

    i.Libya

    j.Tunisia

    k.Sudan

    l.PLO

    The IDF consisted of 275,000 troops, compared to the 456,000 soldiers of the combined Iraqi, Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian armies. The united Arab forces also had a decided edge with regards to weaponry and military equipment: they had more than double the amount of tanks, and close to four times the amount of combat aircraft.

    Think before you claim that it is natural to win such a war.

    2)A story: My 8th grade rebbe, when he was serving in the American Army (he didn’t grow up frum), was studying military strategy in the military academy. They examined strategies of many wars, but never any of Israel’s wars. My rebbe, who was very proud of being Jewish, asked the commander why they never studied Israel’s battled. The commander, a typical stonehearted muscular guy, barked at him “FRIED, MEET ME BEHIND THE CAFETERIA AFTER CLASS!!”. Obviously, my rebbe thought he was going to get beaten up or the like. What happened, instead is amazing. The commander said in his gruff voice “the reason we don’t study Israel’s battle strategies is because we can’t. Israel does not fight like everybody else, according to the normal laws of war, they should have lost every fight they fought. But they don’t. I have no explenation for this, nor do any of my colleagues. They have something out of this world that is helping them.”. This is what this agnostic commander said.

    3)Another related story: The Satmer Rebba, as is well known, denied that the war was a miracle. Rav Goren, when he heard this responded: “With all kavod to The Rebba, Hashem does not need his permission to do a miracle”. Think about this line deeply, not on its superficial level.

    #1018663

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Akuperma,please get your facts straight. The Germans had superior numbers but Hitler kept his Panzer divisions at the Pas de Calais because he refused to believe Normandy was not a diversionary attack

    #1018664

    akuperma- So say Israel’s military victories are nissei nistar.

    #1018665

    writersoul
    Member

    “The secular Israelis, the Hareidim, i.e. the Satmar Rebbe, and most of the world attribute the Israeli victories to having better trained, better led and better armed soldiers.”

    What, so a miracle can’t be a neis nistar? It has to be in-your-face, rabim-beyad-me’atim in order for it to be with siyata dishmaya? How can anyone go through life without understanding that the Hand of Hashem is in everything, even if it seems to be merely teva? Or can something only be from Hashem if the right people think it’s the right thing…

    Do you think that the Holocaust was somehow against the will of Hashem as well? (The outcomes, IMHO, of the two events could not be more different for the Jews- however, I wanted to pick something unequivocally negative for comparison.)

    Just because an outcome may not be what you consider that Hashem wanted doesn’t mean that He was not in control- as, indeed, He is of everything. Saying that something happened merely because of good soldiers, etc completely undermines the constant awareness every Jew should have that indeed, Hashem is the (often invisible) Hand running every aspect of our existence.

    #1018666

    simcha613
    Participant

    Why is there such a big tumult on what’s considered a miracle or not? Since when does something supernatural have to happen to say Hallel? Nothing supernatural happened on Purim and we would have said Hallel were it not for the reasons in the Gemara? It seems the requirement for hallel is yeshua from Hashem. In ’67, the Arabs were bragging and planning on wiping out the Jews in Israel. Supernatural or not, Hashem saved us from destruction. Isn’t that enough for Hallel?

    #1018667

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    D-Day was only the start of the end of the Nazis, A better argument might be for V-E Day or if you were a prisoner and a camp and the day you were liberated

    #1018668

    He also scheduled drills for the Luftwaffe which led to there only being two airplanes in that entire region- something which was extremely counterintuitive as intelligence was warning of an invasion somewhere

    #1018669

    midwesterner
    Participant

    Who would’ve ever thought that we’d hear a ??? ????? ??? speech about the IDF from akuperma?

    #1018670

    pixelate
    Member

    @akuperma

    How was it a miracle? The Allied forces had superior air power, superior numbers, more highly motivated soldiers, not to mention the ability to read virtually all secret communications sent to and from the German military (at least ones sent by radio). Now, if the Warsaw Ghetto uprising had managed to bring down Hitler and end the war – that would be a miracle.

    Of course, the Religious Zionists have somewhat lowered the “bar” for what is considered a miracle, since they attribute the Israeli victories over the Arabs to “miracles” . The secular Israelis, the Hareidim, i.e. the Satmar Rebbe, and most of the world attribute the Israeli victories to having better trained, better led and better armed soldiers.

    A miracle is something the happens that violates the laws of nature. The creation of the world was a miracle. The splitting of the sea is a miracle.

    The entirety of this post is factually incorrect and ludicrous. In fact, i don’t think it’s really by the old @akuperma.

    #1018671

    “1)There is only so much one can attribute to skill. To get some facts straight, Israel fought against:

    a.Egypt

    b.Syria

    c.Jordan

    d.Arab Expeditionary Forces

    e.Iraq

    f.Saudi Arabia

    g.Morocco

    h.Algeria

    i.Libya

    j.Tunisia

    k.Sudan

    l.PLO”

    just one point of contention, the “Arab Expeditionary Forces” was the name of the Saudi and Iraqi units sent to fight Israel, I don’t think Algeria, Morocco, and Tunisia sent anybody, and the PLO did not exist until 1964. not minimizing that there were incredible odds but your facts are a bit off

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