Dangerous territory

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  • This topic contains 50 replies, has 28 voices, and was last updated by  Sam2 7 years ago.
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  • #604550

    WIY
    Member

    Whats your favorite cholov stam food snack or drink?

    #891628

    Sam2
    Participant

    I’d answer, but no one here would know what it is anyway.

    #891629

    Englishman
    Member

    Baruch Hashem I never ate any cholov stam, so I don’t know.

    #891630

    WIY
    Member

    Youd be surprised.

    #891631

    mommamia22
    Participant

    Why do you title this dangerous territory?

    #891632

    SaysMe
    Member

    Lol! Great title choice :)!

    #891633

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Sam, you have really got me wondering. Never tasted, maybe. But never heard of?

    #891634

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Havent seen it around for years. Fruzen Gladje French Vanilla Ice Cream.

    #891635

    bpt
    Participant

    Haggen Daz and Entennmans. Its been a long time since I’ve had either, and I still miss them.

    #891636

    princess17
    Member

    lindt / lindor chocolate the truffles they are delicous! best chocolate ever!

    #891637

    2scents
    Participant

    Whats this Chalav Stam?!

    Is it Chalav Akum?

    Just a nice way of making it appear innocent.

    #891638

    Sam2
    Participant

    Syag and WIY: It was a small-town ice cream shop I was told to go to while traveling through the midwest once.

    #891639

    theObvious
    Member

    el angelo caramel!!

    #891640

    yentingyenta
    Participant

    ghirardelli chocolate

    #891641

    kfb
    Participant

    Growing up I loved Shelly’s in Teaneck nj! They have the best nacho cheese. Now the best place is Labella in Queens!!

    #891642

    Toi
    Participant

    Its ossur anyway. here we go…

    #891643

    BigGolem
    Participant

    Toi: So those who eat would not be counted it a minyan with you?

    #891644

    Toi
    Participant

    nisht nohr dem, they wouldn’t be counted in a minyan with you!

    #891645

    WIY
    Member

    I never realized that there were so many posters here who eat cholov stam.

    My favorite is certain flavors of Haagen Dazs ice cream or the original butterfingers bar.

    #891646

    Whiteberry
    Member

    All who eat chalav shell hacompanies that have government regulations and oversight that satisfies the requirements of chalav yisroel are more then welcome in my minyan.

    #891647

    oomis
    Participant

    I eat cholov stam also. But when the milk cartel prices were being busted by C”Y companies like Goldman’s, I bought C”Y (milk only) as a way of showing hakoras hatov to them for trying to lower the prices.

    #891648

    kfb
    Participant

    WIY- Butterfingers are my favorite candy bar!!! Also try Zero bar, it’s sooo good!!

    #891649

    WIY
    Member

    kfb

    Ill have to try one and see if I like it.

    #891650

    WIY
    Member

    kfb

    Ill have to try one and see if I like it.

    #891651

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    Haggen Daz and Entennmans

    Same! ^_^

    #891652

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    WIY – Quick, take one of these parve caramels. It will cure your doublepostitis!

    #891653

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    The only thing worse than an ambiguous thread title is a deceptive one.

    The Wolf

    #891654

    frummy in the tummy
    Participant

    The only thing worse than a hostile comment is an ambiguous one.

    The 😛

    #891655

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    The only thing worse than a hostile comment is an ambiguous one.

    I thought my comment was unambiguous.

    The Wolf

    #891656

    WIY
    Member

    Wolf

    This is possibly an explosive topic. I thought it would rile up all the anti cholov stamnicks. Like I said above I didnt realize how many posters eat cs.

    #891657

    HolyMoe
    Participant

    So called “Chalav Stam” is indeed dangerous territory.

    About 15% of all cows in the USA have had their stomachs stapled to help them avoid the painful stress that the gas produced by feeding them cheap animal feed causes. This stress can reduce milk output.

    Problem is that almost all Poskim consider these cows to be Treif since they have a puncture in the stomach.

    If they are Treif, that means that the huge dairy cooperatives that supply milk in the USA are producing a product that has Chalav Treifa (much worse than Chalav Akum – it is Min HaTorah) in large amounts that is not Battel.

    Only the small supervised Chalav Yisrael dairy farms avoid this problem.

    If the farmers would be willing to spend money for better feed, this surgery would not be needed.

    So it’s only money. The farmer is cheap. And you are also cheap – trying to save money that Chalav Yisrael must charge.

    In the process, you transgress an Issur D’Oraisa.

    Pretty dangerous, no?

    #891658

    kinder choclate eggs hands down!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    #891659

    Sam2
    Participant

    HolyMoe: If you are going to go that route then you need to hold like R’ Schachter. Because even in the Chalav Yisrael farms it doesn’t change the fact that more than 1.6% of cows are naturally Triefos. So you’d be violating an Issur (an Issur Asei actually, if I recall what R’ Schachter said correctly, but close enough) D’Oraisa whenever you have Chalav Yisrael products as well.

    (And doesn’t R’ Belsky have a piece explaining why those aren’t an issue and why the OU can certify Chalav Stam without worrying about that?)

    #891660

    RebRY
    Member

    Burech Hashem, I don’t have a favorite chulav stam food because I don’t eat chulav stam. By Chasidim there is no such thing as chulav stam.

    #891661

    HERSHEY’S MILK CHOCOLATE!!

    #891662

    WIY
    Member

    RebRY

    “By Chasidim there is no such thing as chulav stam.”

    Well the ones you associate with anyways…

    #891663

    greatest
    Member

    WIY: There is a chasidish rebbe in the world who paskens cholov hacompanies is cholov stam. They all pasken it is pure cholov akum. Don’t deceive yourself.

    #891664

    Holy Moe, sorry, but i think your point is actually a machloikes, the Eida Hachareidis in E”Y and R’ landau are makpid, but R’ Avraham Rubin of Rechovot and R’ Shammai Gross of belz are meikil, and R’ Rubin has a long teshuva about it.

    In E”Y more and more milk companies are moving over to Rabbi Rubin or Belz. (i. e. Strauss)

    The Eida also stopped the shechita in Uruguay becuase of this problem.

    #891665

    oomis
    Participant

    NOMTW – Now yer talkin’! (with almonds)

    #891666

    Feif Un
    Participant

    HolyMoe, I don’t know where you get the idea that “most poskim” hold the cows are a problem. The only ones I’ve seen who’ve actually publicly expressed an opinion on it are R’ Schachter and R’ Belsky. Even R’ Schachter doesn’t pasken for others that it’s not allowed, he only keeps it for himself.

    #891667

    oomis
    Participant

    Let me get this straight – since I admit to my ignorance freely. If a cow is treif (meaning that l’chatchilah is cannot be shechted as a kosher animal), does that make the milk unkosher? I can see that an animal might be unkosher for some technicality and be called treif(which I always thought referred to something found that rendered the animal unfit for kosher consumption, as taruf means torn apart or prey), but its milk is from an intrinsically kosher animal, and it is not yet shechted, so why shoukld there be any question on its milk? the meat, yes, but the milk? There is a huge difference between an animal that is a “lo tehorah” and a “treifah.” Even if a mare were l’havdil slaughtered with a chalaf by a shochet, the meat (and milk) would never be kosher. But a cow is a tehora. Why should its milk be affected halachically by an injury that renders it unfit for shechita/kosher consumption?

    #891668

    HolyMoe
    Participant

    to Sam2:

    There’s a big difference.

    Naturally occurring Treifos don’t have to be assumed. Treifos that we know about (in this case because they are man-made) do have to be taken into account according to most Poskim.

    to only normal person around:

    I live in America and am not familiar with what goes on in Israel and even less with Uruguay.

    I did hear that a better feed is provided to the cows in Israel so this procedure is not used there.

    I would like to make a statement here.

    I am not a Posek. I am just very irked about the Letzonos and jokes about a Takana that were made by our CHaZa”L to prohibit Chalav Akum.

    These were Baalei Ruach HaKodesh. Maybe they didn’t forsee the stapling problems we have today, but the Siyyata Shmaya of following this – sometimes very difficult – Takana has saved many from accidentally consuming Chalav Treife in our times.

    If Reb Moshe ZaTZaL allowed a temporary leniency in America because of government inspection where Chalav Yisrael was not available, he certainly wouldn’t have done so so we should immerse ourselves in Frusen Gladje and Kinder Chocolate Eggs. It was meant for basic staples. But that is beside the point.

    The point is that making light of our ChaZaL is – indeed – dangerous territory.

    Hizoher B’Gachalassan

    #891669

    frummy in the tummy
    Participant

    I thought my comment was unambiguous.

    To me, the title certainly does not seem deceptive. Perhaps it’s ambiguous, but you see what the thread is discussing as soon as you open it up, so who cares. What did you think before you opened the thread? Nothing, it looked like it could be an interesting topic, and so you clicked on it – same reason I did.

    You seemed to be trolling, and I find the best way to deal with a troll is to troll in return.

    And yes, your comment was ambiguous.

    #891670

    2scents
    Participant

    Holymoe, well written.

    #891671

    oomis
    Participant

    If Reb Moshe ZaTZaL allowed a temporary leniency in America because of government inspection where Chalav Yisrael was not available, he certainly wouldn’t have done so so we should immerse ourselves in Frusen Gladje and Kinder Chocolate Eggs. It was meant for basic staples. But that is beside the point.”

    Why do you think it was a temporary leniency? The leniency was b’davka BECAUSE the government inspects and regulates the sale of milk, to ensure it is only sold from cow milk. If the milk is permissible, what have you got against someone enjoying ice cream or milk chocolate, as well as drinking milk?

    It is not for any of us to ascribe motives to the permissibilty of using a food product. If it is muttar, it is muttar. If I want to drink a clearly kosher milkshake because I LIKE IT(and not because I need the calcium), who gets to tell me that it’s only OK if I drink it plain with no flavoring, because apparently that someone thinks I shouldn’t have enjoyment of it? I never ate either Frusen Gladje OR the chocolate eggs, but if I wanted to and it is KOSHER, I would.

    #891672

    Feif Un
    Participant

    oomis: that is part of the position of R’ Belsky. He says all cows have a chezkas kashrus until they are slaughtered. R’ Schachter disagrees with him.

    #891673

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    It’s kind of funny that you mention those kinder chocolate eggs. If they are what I think they are, a relative brought us some from E”Y and we threw them out (after they left) because we didn’t see a recognizable hechsher. I should have asked the CR.

    I have some kids who eat only C”Y and I wish the rest would. All our milk, cheese cream cheese etc. is C”Y but the only reason we didn’t make the leap was because of Shalom Bayis issues (we wouldn’t have been able to eat by the grandparents). Now that it isn’t so relevant, some of my kids are addicted to hersheys and ice cream and aren’t ready to give them up. I still have it as a goal.

    Most missed product – Wacky Macs

    #891674

    HolyMoe
    Participant

    to oomis1105:

    From your words it is apparent that you never learned through all the pages of Reb Moshe’s responses on what he called “Chalav Companies” (the word “Chalav Stam” is a relatively new invention by those laboring to create a new concept).

    I did.

    You should.

    If you did, you would understand this topic as I and most others do, and you wouldn’t have written what you did.

    #891675

    2scents
    Participant

    The Government is not concerned about Kashrus.

    Do you know if Reb Moshe himself drank Chalav ‘Stam’? what about his Family, did he serve it to guest that were at his house?

    #891676

    Chacham
    Participant

    How come when it comes to Chalav Aku”m nobody remembers the Chazon Ish YD 41,4 ? (don’t respond unless you see it)

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