January 7, 2013 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #918340
Im not sure that by lowering the age that people usually get married will suddenly effect at what age people mature. It seems difficult to imagine in our society a 21 year old to be ready for so much responsibility.
In todays society and bachur can go until 20 years old without making a real life decision.
When i was growing up, which wasnt that long ago, we took city buses at 9 years old, my Father took a train across 3 states by himself at 8 years old. Now, I know parents that wont let their son take a car service by himself at 15 years old.
I guess if money is not an issue on both sides than they can do it as the parents on both sides can continue to make all the decisions, but in the average case can we expect that “all of a sudden” these children will be grown adults??January 7, 2013 9:49 pm at 9:49 pm #918341
Chasidim do it very well.
So can you.January 7, 2013 10:33 pm at 10:33 pm #918342
Yo grandpa, can you give us some more examples of a “real life decision” besides taking city buses or riding the train down to Baltimore?January 7, 2013 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #918343
1) I’m not joking now – couldn’t the Rabbonim reinstate the ability, and furthermore, encourage a man to marry more than one woman?
2) I think that the current shidduch system is a very slow one and that the sytem cn’t keep up with, K”AH, the vast amount of people on the market. I beleive Speed Dating could be very effective. I know it sounds goyish – but listen up; It would enable that only minimal information needs to be found out prior to the meeting (the amount of time wasted on phone calls, waiting etc is crazy – especially in the UK where ‘investigating’ is such a lengthly process). This would avoid the crazy amount of time invested in ‘non-starters’ too. Sometimes so much info is fund out, and after 5 minutes of meeting – the boy/girl knows its not right.
All we need is the Rabbonim to endorse it.January 8, 2013 5:23 am at 5:23 am #918344
very funnyJanuary 8, 2013 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #918345
Medium Size ShadchanMember
(I believe in response to:
….but in the average case can we expect that “all of a sudden” these children will be grown adults??)
Chasidim do it very well.
So can you.January 8, 2013 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #918346
Poverty is greatest in Chassidic communities and the head of Satmar said in an article in Mispacha magazine that in his opinion poverty is the greatest threat to Satmar.
When you get married at 18, Your oppourtunities to earn a living enough for 12 kids just isnt thereJanuary 8, 2013 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #918347
Chasidim are no poorer than other Chareidim. And in fact may be overall richer. Look at the great mosdos, yeshivos, tzedakah organizations and untold other chesed organizations they built. Witness who runs the diamond districts in New York and Europe. Witness B&H Photo, etc.January 8, 2013 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #918349
“Witness who runs the diamond districts in New York and Europe. Witness B&H Photo, etc.”
Kein Yirbu. However, these are not arguments against what ZD was saying. Also look at the social services agencies that service these very same groups. Look at the number of families enrolled in all sorts of programs from snap to medicare.
“Chasidim do it very well. So can you.”
How “grown up” must a couple be if the only obligation they have is to make sure they come home to the right apartment every night.January 8, 2013 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #918350
You have statistics? No you don’t. You merely have preconceived notions that you are projecting on others. Other Chareidim (non-Chasidim) are on government assistance at the same rate. Furthermore, no other frum groups have established the numerous chesed organizations (not to mention mosdos) as the Chasidim have at great financial cost. That money is not coming from the government.January 8, 2013 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #918351
apy: What on earth are you talking about? They have all the same marital obligations as you do and your children do.January 9, 2013 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #918352
You have statistics? No you don’t. You merely have preconceived notions that you are projecting on others.Other Chareidim (non-Chasidim) are on government assistance at the same rate.
Does anyone else find this amusing?
P.S. don’t assume non-Chasidim = Chareidim. There are Yekkes, Misnagdim, Litvaks & Oberlanders, even without going to MO. Let alone Sephardim. (Obviously, that does not mean they are not Quakers as well, but they usually don’t get lumped together). Many modern day “Charadim” are Chassidish “wannabes”.January 9, 2013 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #918353
It was Rabbi David Neiderman president of UJO in Williamsburg that said in Mispacha would said that Poverty was the greatest threat to Satmar
Also census Satisics have labeled Kiryat Joel the poorest city in americsJanuary 9, 2013 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm #918355
Also census Satisics have labeled Kiryat Joel the poorest city in americs
Statistics don’t include all income. If you actually go there, you will see that everyone is taken care of adaquately, and they have nice homes (compared to Williamsburg apartments).
To make it clear, I don’t mean anything “illegal”. What I mean is that those who don’t have are supported to their means by the community, so that no one goes without.January 9, 2013 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #918356
Actually, Oberlanders usually do get lumped together with Chasidim while Yekkes usually get lumped together with Litvaks/Misnagdim. Regardless, my above point about the comparitive equivelence of government aid between chasidim and non-chasidic chareidim holds true whether or not you include Oberlanders and/or Yekkes in the sample size. Both Oberlanders and Yekkes are a very small minority of the Frum Ashkenazic population.January 9, 2013 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #918357
“chasidim and non-chasidic chareidim”
What is a “non chassidic charadim”? Yerushalmis? Lakewood and its child yeshivos? KAJ? Flatbush? St. Louis?January 9, 2013 10:33 pm at 10:33 pm #918358
shmoel. since you seem to know what I am talking about, and I dont know what I am talking about, perhaps you would like to explain to me what obligations a 17 year old couple has?January 9, 2013 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #918359
The same obligations a 23 year old couple has.January 9, 2013 10:51 pm at 10:51 pm #918360
Kiryas Yoel is the poorest city because income is calculated on a per capita basis. If you divide the total income earned among the 70% of the city which are children and don’t have income, of course you’ll have the poorest city.
Poorest city just means the city with the largest percentage of children ka”h.
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