January 14, 2011 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #594223ckbshlMember
I grew up with the basic value- “do to others what you would want done to yourself”. Why when people are dating doesn’t this hold true? For a pithy example: A guy opens the car door for his date, she sits down puts on her seat belt and doesn’t concern herself with unlocking the other door for her date! (Obviously relevant in a car that doesn’t have an automatic opener) Is this example tznius related? I don’t get it!January 14, 2011 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #729046
It’s called chivalry.January 15, 2011 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #729047
Nice to see a bochur understanding that!January 15, 2011 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #729048
ckbshl: She probably didn’t unlock the door because she wasn’t trained well.January 16, 2011 12:46 am at 12:46 am #729049SacrilegeMember
Could it be that she didnt realize it wasnt already opened? Being that HER door was opened *I* think its safe to assume that his would be too. (what kind of Jalopy are we talking about 🙂January 16, 2011 1:17 am at 1:17 am #729050truth be toldMember
Do you expect your guests to serve you after you serve them?January 16, 2011 1:44 am at 1:44 am #729051
tbt, no one is saying she is “responsible” to unlock it for him. But it definitely would be a nice gesture and the right thing for her to do.January 16, 2011 2:17 am at 2:17 am #729052snapplegrlMember
lets not make this into a crisis… she is definately not responsible or expected to do that.. its his car his control..
but by the title of the thread i was thinking of a story i heard from a friend- she was on a date and he was dropping her off. she lives near a busy wedding hall and there was traffic on the block so he asked her if she minds walking from the corner.. so he dropped her off and drove away.. now thats a lack of ettiquette or chivalry?January 16, 2011 2:20 am at 2:20 am #729053
Most cars that guys use nowadays have doors that are unlocked either through a remote or when the passenger door is opened.January 16, 2011 2:20 am at 2:20 am #729054mewhoParticipant
i think most assume the clicker opens the door automaticallyJanuary 16, 2011 2:37 am at 2:37 am #729055
true story of wrong wrong dating etiquette. a guy showed up to a date without a tie, and a tall SUV the girl can’t get into tzniusdik-ly.January 16, 2011 2:42 am at 2:42 am #729056oomisParticipant
Most doors open on both sides, but in point of fact, I ALWAYS leaned over to check the door was open on my date’s side. Good manners are a two way street.January 16, 2011 2:55 am at 2:55 am #729057
yentingyenta: So how’d she get in?January 16, 2011 3:05 am at 3:05 am #729058
she had to climb in when he went to his sideJanuary 16, 2011 3:11 am at 3:11 am #729060eclipseMember
trick…put your purse/bag/whatever you hold in front of you as you get in and out of car.(heard from Rebitzen Leah Kohn about 20 years ago)
I know…Hollywood has a different minhag!:)January 16, 2011 3:28 am at 3:28 am #729061
thanx for the bag tip.January 16, 2011 5:18 am at 5:18 am #729062chayav inish livisumayParticipant
although there maybe nothing wrong with it regarding tzniyus a lot of times ppl think that it might be wrong with no basis. Kind of taking chumras on. But i dont think u shud dump her because of that because it couldve been an honest mistake.January 16, 2011 6:12 am at 6:12 am #729064mamashtakahMember
I always opened the car door for my dates, and I noted who did and didn’t unlock my door from the inside. It wasn’t a deal breaker, but it should be noted that the young lady I married did unlock my door.January 17, 2011 4:19 am at 4:19 am #729065ckbshlMember
Bochur24- huh? Chivalry isn’t being stuck up & inconsiderate
Gabboim- This isn’t a one time occurrence this happens on a regular basis, as a matter of fact its the norm for a girl to not check. Are they all that spaced out? Stuck up?
Sacrilege- Any older car has this issue, regardless of condition.
This is “the YESHIVA world” after all… not stuck-up preppy world who never saw a non-power everything car in their lives..January 17, 2011 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #729066
ckbshl – Checking the car door lock (and, for that matter, opening the car door for a girl), are not things that are common decency manners that you would just do for anyone. I would not feel the need to open a door for my friend who was getting into the car for me to drive him to a baseball game. Yet I absolutely do it for a girl who I am taking on a date. This has nothing to do with manners and being considerate. Trust me, the girl is perfectly capable of opening the door for herself. I do it because it is chivalrous! That chivalry does not apply the other way around. manners do.
PS – if I were in a passenger seat of a car with no power locks with my friend getting in and my friend would have to reach for the key to open it I probably would open it from the inside. However, this does not apply as much to a girl in the passenger seat on a date since she may feel too reserved to reach over. Why is that? I think it is since in the heat of the moment, we can expect a girl to be reserved. I think it’s actually attractive if her middos check out. makes me more confident in her natural tznius.January 17, 2011 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #729067truth be toldMember
Oomis, back in your days, it was obvious his door was still locked (who uses keys nowadays?), and sliding over was much easier in those large cars with a long front bench. Its much more complicated for a girl to get to the other side in the newer cars.January 17, 2011 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #729068WiseWomanMember
ok here we go for some stories:
1. a guy calls me to tell me hes outside that i should come out. so the people who’s house i went out from runs out there and yells at him at how dare you not come to get her. he shows up in jeans and shirt.(he was supposedly aq chassidish guy from WB) and im all fancy for the date he turns around and says to “i just wanted to meet you to see if i wanted to go out with you.” the shadchan who was his cousin was so mad at him and apologized profusely to my mom.
2.usually a guy holds door me unless i tell him other wise. but this one guy walks into store and doesnt hold door and not only that doesnt let me go first!
3.another guy calls me to tell me he needs to go to the mikvah before we go out. so i went to meet him because i didnt want him to pick me and we go. we get outside the restaurant and i go to get out. he says where are you going? and i said into the store!(duh! where else?) then he says “no stay a while lets relax whats the rush?” OK fine. weird thing number one. Now we go into restaurant(this guy is chassidish too) and i start being curteous to waiter. like hi thank you how are you. he says not appropriate to talk to waiter. i said “EXCUSE ME?!?!?! of course you talk to them its called being respectful!” and we go on and on. then i tell him how iw ant an open house and if my friends want to come for shabbos thats ok. to which he says its not appropriate and that really bothers me because i wont talk to them. and i said well then we wouldnt be able to have your friends because I would find it inappropriate(which i totally dont care. just had to say it) so i then i said …”see ya!”January 17, 2011 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #729069BadHairDayParticipant
ckbshl- I do not think it shows bad manners. I personally feel that the guy is “in charge” of the date and sometimes if the girl “tries to help” he could feel inadequate. So in this case the guy opens the door for the girl and then goes around to his side and opens his own door, if the girl leans over and opens it for him I think he would feel dumb- like hey, I could open it myself. (but then again i’m talking from the girl’s side so maybe the guys don’t feel this way???) But this might be what the girl is thinking.January 17, 2011 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #729070
WiseWoman – As far as a guy not letting you go first that is a tznius thing. I consider myself extremely courteous on dates (and, surprise surprise, in real life too) but I try to go first unless it seems the girl is in a rush to get ahead of me 😉 I do hold the door open behind me though.January 17, 2011 9:23 pm at 9:23 pm #729072ItsJustMyOpinionMember
Come on people. Your making a big deal out of nothing. There have always been the “rules of dating” that everyone adheres to. It’s almost rehearsed. But it changes with the times. Back in my days (late 80’s) You unlocked the door on her side (with the key), opened the door for her, (closing the door was optional) she then either unlocked the auto locks or reached over and unlocked the button. Nowadays 99% + of cars all have the remote, and I’m sure the “unlocking the door” part isn’t even in the “dating handbook” anymore. I’m sure that the majority of people don’t even open the car doors for their wives regularly so don’t knock the girl for lousy manners. I’m sure it didn’t even occur to her.January 17, 2011 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #729073demoMember
dating etiquette isnt all about opening a car door. its knowing how to behave during the dating process.last week my daughter went out with a boy,she was his first girl.she didnt think it was for her and we told the shadchan that right away. the shadchan called us about 10 minutes after my daughter walked into the house after her date.the boy had called him immediately and was interested in going out again.we told the shadchan it wasnt for her. a day later one of my daughters close friends and a neighbor, tells her she heard my daughter was “DUMPED” by this boy.apparently he went over to his next door neighbors and regaled them with his date experience.he must have forgotten their son in law was our neighbor and his sister my daughters close friend.for heavens sake-pretend you are really 23 years old and have a tiny bit of class and some maturity.January 17, 2011 10:52 pm at 10:52 pm #729074
Like bochur24 said, a lot of guys are told to walk first because halachically a guy shouldn’t walk behind a girl. Otherwise they’re expected to be completely chivalrous 🙂
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